At Bush airport, TSA tries out device that targets fake IDs
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2007
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At Bush airport, TSA tries out device that targets fake IDs
http://www.chron.com/news/article/At...at-3659381.php
There was a thread noting this was coming but I can't find it.
Anyone had any experiance with these yet? My last two flights, this month at IAH, did not have this.
How many of the 11 Sept 01 hijackers would have gotten the green light with a valid ID and BP...?
...Weygand noted that there are 1,300 different types of government-issued IDs, including driver's licenses and passports, in the U.S. alone.
Security and travel experts speak favorably of the initiative.
Bruce Schneiers, a security technology consultant, said the new technology may prove more valuable in speeding up the process than in ensuring the authenticity of IDs.
But Schneiers, who contends "the photo ID requirement is stupid anyway" because it has no real security benefits, said using machines to assist with verification makes sense...
Security and travel experts speak favorably of the initiative.
Bruce Schneiers, a security technology consultant, said the new technology may prove more valuable in speeding up the process than in ensuring the authenticity of IDs.
But Schneiers, who contends "the photo ID requirement is stupid anyway" because it has no real security benefits, said using machines to assist with verification makes sense...
Anyone had any experiance with these yet? My last two flights, this month at IAH, did not have this.
How many of the 11 Sept 01 hijackers would have gotten the green light with a valid ID and BP...?
#3
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
These readers/scanners are already obsolete. Easy to by-pass, for lack of a better word at the moment, the technology. 'Fake' IDs, which are real, are easy to obtain and to make.
Sorry, TSA, but another colossal waste of taxpayers' money.
Sorry, TSA, but another colossal waste of taxpayers' money.
#4
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Ham Sandwich Medallion
Posts: 889
...or they could just be throwing billions of dollars towards a self-defeating solution to a problem that doesn't exist and/or is totally irrelevant to their stated mission. Again.
#5
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Looks to be 107,000$ish per machine if the numbers are correct.
I saw different numbers in the thread that originally mentioned these.
#6
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
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Posts: 6,056
I don't know how UA's boarding passes look, the common boarding pass at IAH, but I think these systems will take any discretion or minor amounts of common sense that a TDC currently has out of the process. It will turn into a RED LIGHT BAD! GREEN LIGHT GOOD! :-: mentality.
I thought of this as I traversed the checkpoint yesterday where my boarding pass said LASTNAME/FIRSTNAMEMIDDLENAME (no space). How will the machine read this compared to a boarding pass that just shows LASTNAME/FIRSTNAME?
What about people with hyphenated names where some IDs or systems support the hyphen and others treat it as a space?
Also, does the system just have a preloaded database that checks the supposed security features of a document against the one presented to the machine? I assume that it would be nearly impossible to verify every possible valid type of document with the issuing authority instantaneously. This seems like it's nothing more than a $100,000 black light of doom replacement.
I thought of this as I traversed the checkpoint yesterday where my boarding pass said LASTNAME/FIRSTNAMEMIDDLENAME (no space). How will the machine read this compared to a boarding pass that just shows LASTNAME/FIRSTNAME?
What about people with hyphenated names where some IDs or systems support the hyphen and others treat it as a space?
Also, does the system just have a preloaded database that checks the supposed security features of a document against the one presented to the machine? I assume that it would be nearly impossible to verify every possible valid type of document with the issuing authority instantaneously. This seems like it's nothing more than a $100,000 black light of doom replacement.
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
The TSA has adequately demonstrated an inability to get into even that mindset, as the "RED LIGHT BAD!/GREEN LIGHT GOOD!" mentality requires that the operator be able to insure that the device with the red and green lights is plugged in and turned on. (See the recent reason for the JFK Terminal 7 dump.)
#8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,685
I'm waiting for the, "it's your airline's fault," excuse when their scanners can't read things like gate passes or interline BPs. Similar to getting the "airline's fault," excuse when the current mobile boarding pass scanner doesn't work for the TDC.
#10
Join Date: Nov 2009
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I thought of this as I traversed the checkpoint yesterday where my boarding pass said LASTNAME/FIRSTNAMEMIDDLENAME (no space). How will the machine read this compared to a boarding pass that just shows LASTNAME/FIRSTNAME?
What about people with hyphenated names where some IDs or systems support the hyphen and others treat it as a space?
What about people with hyphenated names where some IDs or systems support the hyphen and others treat it as a space?
If this proves to be an issue, I may have to start traveling with my passport card (which I got specifically because they were able to print my full name correctly, hyphen and all.)
#11
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That scanner in the picture looks exactly like the scanner they are using in the pre-check line at BOS terminal A. I was sad then the LLL appeared on the screen instead of the triple beep.
#12
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
While I'm sure a skilled forger (and let's be honest, a dedicated terrorist will enlist one) could easily circumvent this machine. However, I do actually see some value in the ID requirement so long as no-fly lists are properly maintained. Remember, in the days before kiosks, home-printed boarding passes and mobile boarding passes one had to show ID at the airport to get the BP in the first place. It'll never matter; the guys on Sept. 11th should have been on the NFL (given how quickly it was determined who had hijacked the planes) and without that, the ID check adds nothing.
#13
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
While I'm sure a skilled forger (and let's be honest, a dedicated terrorist will enlist one) could easily circumvent this machine. However, I do actually see some value in the ID requirement so long as no-fly lists are properly maintained. Remember, in the days before kiosks, home-printed boarding passes and mobile boarding passes one had to show ID at the airport to get the BP in the first place. It'll never matter; the guys on Sept. 11th should have been on the NFL (given how quickly it was determined who had hijacked the planes) and without that, the ID check adds nothing.
#14
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: DC
Posts: 95
While I'm sure a skilled forger (and let's be honest, a dedicated terrorist will enlist one) could easily circumvent this machine. However, I do actually see some value in the ID requirement so long as no-fly lists are properly maintained. Remember, in the days before kiosks, home-printed boarding passes and mobile boarding passes one had to show ID at the airport to get the BP in the first place. It'll never matter; the guys on Sept. 11th should have been on the NFL (given how quickly it was determined who had hijacked the planes) and without that, the ID check adds nothing.
I don't expect your average TSA minion to have enough of a brain to interpret any information that comes back. Nor will they have adequate supervision to ensure that innocent folks aren't abused.
#15
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 117
I suggest that not only does ID not make us safer, it makes us less safe.
As an example, a teacher of mine had escaped Cuba in a small boat in the 1960s. This made him a criminal fugitive in the eyes of the Cuban government. A few years later, he was on a Miami to Tampa flight that was hijacked to Havana. (in Flyertalk parlance, MIA to TPA; irrops; HAV) He hid/destroyed his documents when he realized that the flight was crossing the Florida Straights. He avoided recapture partly because it was plausible for an American to be traveling without ID.
To leave the realm of anecdote and cite something verifiable, Petty Officer Robert Stetham was killed by the TWA 847 hijackers because they found his U.S. military ID. Leon Klinghoffer was singled out by the Achille Lauro highjackers because his U.S. passport listed his birthplace as Israel.
Do you think that ID made those folks safer? Once the scanning check point has confirmed that I don’t have a weapon or an explosive, why does it matter whether I’m John Smith or Joe Bloggs?
As an example, a teacher of mine had escaped Cuba in a small boat in the 1960s. This made him a criminal fugitive in the eyes of the Cuban government. A few years later, he was on a Miami to Tampa flight that was hijacked to Havana. (in Flyertalk parlance, MIA to TPA; irrops; HAV) He hid/destroyed his documents when he realized that the flight was crossing the Florida Straights. He avoided recapture partly because it was plausible for an American to be traveling without ID.
To leave the realm of anecdote and cite something verifiable, Petty Officer Robert Stetham was killed by the TWA 847 hijackers because they found his U.S. military ID. Leon Klinghoffer was singled out by the Achille Lauro highjackers because his U.S. passport listed his birthplace as Israel.
Do you think that ID made those folks safer? Once the scanning check point has confirmed that I don’t have a weapon or an explosive, why does it matter whether I’m John Smith or Joe Bloggs?