Let me ask a related question: can U.S. citizens returning to the U.S. simply refuse to fill out the blue form 6059B? Would there be any negative repercussions other than secondary screening?
I think it would be pretty cool to walk up to the passport control booth and hand the officer a bank form 6059B and say "Hi, I don't fill these out."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah
Let me ask a related question: can U.S. citizens returning to the U.S. simply refuse to fill out the blue form 6059B? Would there be any negative repercussions other than secondary screening?
I think it would be pretty cool to walk up to the passport control booth and hand the officer a bank form 6059B and say "Hi, I don't fill these out."
You think "it" would be pretty cool, or do you think "you" would be pretty cool?
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You think "it" would be pretty cool, or do you think "you" would be pretty cool?
If every returning US citizen did protest in such way, it may lead to interesting change indeed.
Unfortunately most people are going to behave like little sheep in the face of most government requests because: most people prefer to spend their time doing something else than protesting; and being the point protester hassled by the government with no back-up from the general population of sheeple (or sheeple leaders) -- so as to undermine government demands of free people -- doesn't motivate pushing for change.
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He just got delayed with no other consequences. I can't find any other info online though about refusing to fill out all or part of form 6059-B.
Hm. I'm entering the US at JFK in a couple weeks, US citizen, no connecting flight. I'll give it a whirl, no 4(a) and (b). Without DY...T let's see what's left.
("Ah, we've been expecting you. You like writing on blogs, huh? ...")
Hm. I'm entering the US at JFK in a couple weeks, US citizen, no connecting flight. I'll give it a whirl, no 4(a) and (b). Without DY...T let's see what's left.
("Ah, we've been expecting you. You like writing on blogs, huh? ...")
(lol the 3 letters removed by the smutblocker!)
But we kind of already know from Mr. Titus what happens if you don't fill out 4(a) and 4(b). We need a guinea pig for what happens if you just leave the whole form blank. Or sign it but leave all the answers blank or write "I refuse to answer" above your signature. Surely someone has done this before, and I doubt there's much CBP can do other than detain you a bit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphripjah
But we kind of already know from Mr. Titus what happens if you don't fill out 4(a) and 4(b). We need a guinea pig for what happens if you just leave the whole form blank. Or sign it but leave all the answers blank or write "I refuse to answer" above your signature. Surely someone has done this before, and I doubt there's much CBP can do other than detain you a bit.
As noted in the blog. You get a secondary, they go through everything, including your wallet. Normally they find a license with an address (not saying it is correct address) and they fill it in for you.
I'd presume they then go through everything you are carrying and I'll also presume try and charge you absurd duty if you can't prove you took it with you???
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But we kind of already know from Mr. Titus what happens if you don't fill out 4(a) and 4(b). We need a guinea pig for what happens if you just leave the whole form blank. Or sign it but leave all the answers blank or write "I refuse to answer" above your signature. Surely someone has done this before, and I doubt there's much CBP can do other than detain you a bit.
Yeah. The rest of the items are arguably "legitimate." Certainly less onerous (and more appropriate to the purported task) than the obedience conditioning stations operated by the TSA. I'm not prepared to take my "activities" to that level for the moment.
Questions 4(a) and (b) are not appropriate, not relevant, not "legitimate." The form says "must provide the following information." Incorrect. I draw the line. Props to Mr. Titus, and thanks to you for the link.
Questions 4(a) and (b) are not appropriate, not relevant, not "legitimate." The form says "must provide the following information." Incorrect. I draw the line. Props to Mr. Titus, and thanks to you for the link.
I agree that the other questions on the form might be more appropriate to law enforcement's efforts to determine if you are committing or have committed an illegal act. Which is all the more reason why some people may not want to fill out the form. If you answer "Are you carrying more than $10,000" with a "no," you can be charged with making a false statement if they find more than $10,000 on you.
I know that the CBP documentation says that the form is mandatory for all travelers, even citizens, but I'm just wondering if that's really true. Don't we have an equal right to refuse to answer written questions as we do oral questions, even if (and especially if) those written questions are appropriately tailored to determine if we have engaged in illegal acts?
I just don't see any upside to writing down what countries I've visited, whether I was on business, whether I'm carrying over $10,000, etc. I'm happy to give them my name, DOB, passport number, etc.
If you answer "Are you carrying more than $10,000" with a "no," you can be charged with making a false statement if they find more than $10,000 on you.
Tricky, though, because the Fifth Amendment only protects true statements.
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Don't we have an equal right to refuse to answer written questions as we do oral questions,
Most certainly.
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even if (and especially if) those written questions are appropriately tailored to determine if we have engaged in illegal acts?
But they're not (with the exception of the question about $10,000). They're to determine whether the traveler owes duties, which is not a crime. One could, certainly argue, however, that answering the question about currency could violate one's Fifth Amendment rights and that's an interesting point.
I've not refused the questions of the officers going to Europe or returning home to the states. I've gotten more hassle returning by car from Canada compared to by air into the USA.
I hope things are easier when I go to and from Dublin in late September through T2 in Ireland.
I agree that the other questions on the form might be more appropriate to law enforcement's efforts to determine if you are committing or have committed an illegal act. Which is all the more reason why some people may not want to fill out the form. If you answer "Are you carrying more than $10,000" with a "no," you can be charged with making a false statement if they find more than $10,000 on you.
I know that the CBP documentation says that the form is mandatory for all travelers, even citizens, but I'm just wondering if that's really true. Don't we have an equal right to refuse to answer written questions as we do oral questions, even if (and especially if) those written questions are appropriately tailored to determine if we have engaged in illegal acts?
I just don't see any upside to writing down what countries I've visited, whether I was on business, whether I'm carrying over $10,000, etc. I'm happy to give them my name, DOB, passport number, etc.
Hm again.
CBP Form 6059B includes:
Quote:
CBP officers have the authority to question you and to examine you and your personal property. If you are one of the travelers selected for an examination, you will be treated in a courteous, professional and dignified manner.
That, I can go along with. Whether I "must provide the following information" is another matter entirely.
They do have a "legitimate" job to do. I choose to read the above phrase as: "Please provide the following information:"
Of couse, we should avoid making a false statement to a federal officer. If I was doing the proscribed illegal act, and perhaps randomly otherwise, I would simply decline to answer certain questions. They can't "punish" us for that, but the "upside" to answering the questions is, chances are their investigation (if any) will be quicker.
But Mr. Titus is right, that question is the least relevant to any "legitimate" function of the CBP (though, arguably, it serves an identification function), and is the best basis for challenging the "must provide" claim. 4(a), (b) and (c) (state) are OUT. Blank. I'm keeping my wool today.
(I wonder if they'll try to get one of my three "family members" to break ranks.)
I suppose if you're not going to answer question 4, you should leave your driver's license in your car. Don't give them the satisfaction of looking in your wallet and finding a driver's license with your address on it. And toss your luggage tags with your address as well.
