TSA breaks insulin pump

Old May 9, 2012, 1:26 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by SirFlysALot
During an earlier point in my career, I performed software installations. After a few incidents where the tape would not load at the client side, I would always ask for a manual inspection at the checkpoint. About 50% of the time I would get push back (pre TSA days) where they told me it was perfectly safe.

I started asking the screeners to run the tape through the x-ray several times on the way back after the successful installation. It was just an experiment. Many times the tape would not work back in the office where I would also get the same parity errors I would previously get on site.

These tapes were low density and media today is much higher density. I would expect that the same results might be found on computer equipment. Some sites were always fine but others would damage the tape repeatedly. Some x-ray machines must have been really cranked.
I'm not an expert, but I've always been told that x-rays don't, in and of themselves, disrupt magnetic storage media, particularly at the low exposure levels used in carry-on baggage scanners (which are limited in their power levels due to unshielded human proximity).

However, an x-ray machine is obviously an electrical device. I don't know how they generate, or detect, the x-rays they use to form the image, so a large electromagnet could be part of the process, and the magnetic field from that may be what disrupted your tapes.

I've passed magnetic media through the carry-on x-ray scanner a few times - floppy disks, various VHS tapes, and of course the hard drive of my laptops - without incident, but I did once have a shipment of floppies scrambled like a dozen eggs when they were shipped to me via FedEx. I always suspected that Fed-Ex had x-rayed the box in transit, but never could be sure. Whatever happened, the disks' FATs were scrambled and the computer wouldn't even recognize them as formatted media; after formatting, they seemed usable, though of course I tossed them out as untrustworthy anyway. Out of an abundance of caution, as it were.
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Old May 9, 2012, 3:53 pm
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Originally Posted by loops
...too much or too little insulin could be administered to a diabetic whose disease is bad enough in the first place to require the use of the device.
As a type 1 pump wearer, I would just like to point out that there is no "bad" or "good" version of insulin dependent diabetes. It is like being pregnant. you either ARE or you are not. An insulin pump is used to administer insulin in a more precise way, much like tweezers are used to remove a splinter, rather than salad tongs...

This poor kid. Me, as an old lady, I know better than to even talk to the thugs at TSA....just opt me out, feel my boobies, swab my hands after you make me fondle the device you find "hidden" in my bra, and let me go disinfect myself!
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Old May 9, 2012, 4:58 pm
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Originally Posted by SirFlysALot
During an earlier point in my career, I performed software installations. After a few incidents where the tape would not load at the client side, I would always ask for a manual inspection at the checkpoint. About 50% of the time I would get push back (pre TSA days) where they told me it was perfectly safe.

I started asking the screeners to run the tape through the x-ray several times on the way back after the successful installation. It was just an experiment. Many times the tape would not work back in the office where I would also get the same parity errors I would previously get on site.

These tapes were low density and media today is much higher density. I would expect that the same results might be found on computer equipment. Some sites were always fine but others would damage the tape repeatedly. Some x-ray machines must have been really cranked.
Originally Posted by WillCAD
I'm not an expert, but I've always been told that x-rays don't, in and of themselves, disrupt magnetic storage media, particularly at the low exposure levels used in carry-on baggage scanners (which are limited in their power levels due to unshielded human proximity).

However, an x-ray machine is obviously an electrical device. I don't know how they generate, or detect, the x-rays they use to form the image, so a large electromagnet could be part of the process, and the magnetic field from that may be what disrupted your tapes.

I've passed magnetic media through the carry-on x-ray scanner a few times - floppy disks, various VHS tapes, and of course the hard drive of my laptops - without incident, but I did once have a shipment of floppies scrambled like a dozen eggs when they were shipped to me via FedEx. I always suspected that Fed-Ex had x-rayed the box in transit, but never could be sure. Whatever happened, the disks' FATs were scrambled and the computer wouldn't even recognize them as formatted media; after formatting, they seemed usable, though of course I tossed them out as untrustworthy anyway. Out of an abundance of caution, as it were.
These are both really interesting anecdotes. I know that back in the day when I used film in my camera, I was told that 800 exposure and below film could be X-rayed, but 1600 exposure film could not. I thought that was more an issue of light-sensitive chemicals (X-rays are just slightly shorter than UV rays, and UV rays are just slightly shorter than visible light).

I will check and see if I can find anything out about magnetic storage and x-rays.

I agree that the manufacturer's warning is probably more an "we can't prove it's safe" rather than a "We're really worried about the damage". HTH is an engineer supposed to quality check a radiation exposure with no specs, dosage, or calibration records?!?
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Old May 9, 2012, 5:45 pm
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I am certainly no expert in this field, but I do get a chance to speak to technical experts --- and so I did. According to someone who is qualified to testify in court about such matters, without knowing the specifics, this person would advise never to pass the insulin pump through any x-ray or magnetic device.

The reason he gave was the same one about the full-body scanners. The levels of radiation / energy are given when the technology is functioning properly and well-calibrated. However, there is no procedure in place at the airport to make sure that this is true, and the testing is not done to test the probability of malfunction when operating all day, every day.

Bottom line, normal levels could be safe, but no way to know how often abnormal levels occur because monitoring procedures are not in place.
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Old May 9, 2012, 10:04 pm
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Originally Posted by catandmouse
As an engineer I am somewhat surprised as I don't see what in the pump could be sensitive enough to be affected. My suspicion is that the manufacturers of the pumps have simply not tested or qualified the pumps under these conditions and are CYA themselves just in case.
The chips used probably aren't radiation-hardened. The odds of trouble are low but not zero. The exposure rate might matter--two hits on the same memory cell in rapid succession would be more likely to cause trouble than two hits spread apart. It's probably more a liability issue, though.
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Old May 9, 2012, 10:06 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by WillCAD
However, an x-ray machine is obviously an electrical device. I don't know how they generate, or detect, the x-rays they use to form the image, so a large electromagnet could be part of the process, and the magnetic field from that may be what disrupted your tapes.
The Fark thread on this incident had someone who appeared knowledgeable that said that x-ray generation involves big magnets. I have no confirmation on this, though.
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Old May 10, 2012, 7:22 am
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Originally Posted by cparekh
I am certainly no expert in this field, but I do get a chance to speak to technical experts --- and so I did. According to someone who is qualified to testify in court about such matters, without knowing the specifics, this person would advise never to pass the insulin pump through any x-ray or magnetic device.

The reason he gave was the same one about the full-body scanners. The levels of radiation / energy are given when the technology is functioning properly and well-calibrated. However, there is no procedure in place at the airport to make sure that this is true, and the testing is not done to test the probability of malfunction when operating all day, every day.

Bottom line, normal levels could be safe, but no way to know how often abnormal levels occur because monitoring procedures are not in place.
This is what I'm thinking too. There's no way to know what the actual power level is. I'm sure the machines are calibrated at some point, but how often and by whom? The TSA says they are safe, but they aren't exactly trustworthy.

Maybe this scanner was putting out too much energy when this pump was destroyed or maybe the pumps are sensitive to the scanners. I don't know if the TSA has allowed or will allow the pump manufacturers to test their pumps using the TSA's scanners. They would probably claim SSI or some other nonsense to prevent the testing.

The two pumps I've used seem to be robust. If a scanner can damage this pump, what else can it damage?
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Old May 10, 2012, 9:06 am
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Originally Posted by spd476
The two pumps I've used seem to be robust. If a scanner can damage this pump, what else can it damage?
Your cells. The expert I spoke to always ops out. Not because the backscatter or MMW is unsafe, but because they could be unsafe if the machine malfunctions. He thinks with the right malfunction even the MMW can cause problems. There is no reliable testing to say that is not true.
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Old May 11, 2012, 11:22 am
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Originally Posted by cparekh
Your cells. The expert I spoke to always ops out. Not because the backscatter or MMW is unsafe, but because they could be unsafe if the machine malfunctions. He thinks with the right malfunction even the MMW can cause problems. There is no reliable testing to say that is not true.
And note that the TSA as refused to allow anyone to test their machines, even though it was told by Congress to, and they won't even confirm they are doing any maintenance or testing to ensure they are staying in calibration.

Please note the in the medical world it is not uncommon to test the calibration of devices that produce radiation and find that 10% or more fall out of calibration over the course of a year.
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Old May 11, 2012, 4:32 pm
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A friend of mine was going through security at PDX and was stopped after getting into the machine that they had to re-calibrate before they scan her. I'm not sure I trust the guy who was hired off an ad on a pizza box to be calibrating this type of equipment.

Last edited by CDKing; May 11, 2012 at 4:42 pm
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Old May 12, 2012, 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by MKEbound
Please note the in the medical world it is not uncommon to test the calibration of devices that produce radiation and find that 10% or more fall out of calibration over the course of a year.
It's also worth noting that no medical equipment gets used at the rates the TSA uses theirs. I'd expect the calibration to drift even farther with more use.
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Old Aug 22, 2017, 3:21 pm
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TSA destroys woman's insulin pump


and


and

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Old Aug 22, 2017, 4:36 pm
  #28  
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No surprise here. TSA's highly trained, professional workforce redefines incompetence.
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 8:09 am
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BUT... her plane didn't blow up. So #missionaccomplished .
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Old Aug 23, 2017, 8:43 am
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The pax said it was an insulin pump, but unless the screener rubbed and jabbed it hard enough, she couldn't be sure it was an insulin pump and not a bomb.

Maybe she thought the pax had marijuana or >$10K cash or a suspicious book stashed under the pump. That's what they told her at the 'academy'.
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