GUWonder

Lots of countries get convinced to "solve the US' problems". And we use carrots and sticks to get them to help to do our business for us.

Himeno

They aren't asking for other countries to sold the US' problems in these cases. International departures on airlines and ships are logged by the carrier and the information sent to CBP. If I board, for example, QF12, Qantas will tell CBP that I'm leaving the US.

The issue is land crossings with Canada and Mexico. There is no need for immigration officials in Italy to submit Italian entry data to the US.

WilcoRoger

True - you cannot handle immigration on US soil, so you outsource it to foreign airports (aka preclearance)

GUWonder

Exit control of this sort is not just about handling immigration on US soil. It's also about preventing people from leaving the US.

To try to make the case for instituting more exit controls from the US, expect the following kind of situations to be used as a justification to include US passport holders for such exit controls too:

Fugitive lawyer says he's fled the US using fake passport

Part of the claim will be that these controls may help the federal government increase its ability to collect money from US persons too and thus it should be looked at as not just having a cost element.

FlyingHoustonian

abc13.com/travel/facial-recognition-technology-deployed-at-iah/2156898/

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/local-m...tercontinental

New biometric exit program at IAH on NRT flight (follow-up from prior testing at ATL)

I presume this is the daily UNITED Houston-Tokyo flight and not the ANA one

GUWonder

Delta and JetBlue have signed up to try to help DHS/CBP in this regard. And it's no longer just random or targeted physical exit controls of sort; rather, it's a systematic trial before trying to expand this to cover a much higher proportion of US flight passenger departures.

The prior exit controls in place for many years that were random or targeted have been supplemented by additional exit controls of a physical sort too.

te36

Curious:

How is CBP measuring whether someone overstayed in the USA or not today ?In other words: : how does CBP create exit records and associate them with a passports entry records ?

I was thinking it is the APIS data entered during check in combined with another data point from the airline "passenger has entered plane" and "plane departed USA". Or does the passport scan at exit security have a relevance as well ? Something like that... ?! Exactly that ? What is publically known ?

I remember a poor guy on a plane a long time ago who told me the airline once misplaced or failed to enter into a system his I-94 upon departure and since then he was blacklisted and had to "enjoy" visits to the secondary inspection spa every time he travelled to the USA. Even though he explicitly worked with them to get the record cleared. Curse of the bureaucracy, bad records never clear - i fear. This was before ESTA, probably before APIS as well.

xobile

New piece from The Verge on this
https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/18/15332742/us-border-biometric-exit-facial-recognition-scanning-homeland-security

te36

"Everybody knows how to take photos".
... Except for GE Kiosks that can not even adjust cameras, so they only work for dwarfs or take breast hair shots. And none of the immigration officers ever cared. "Is this picture ok ?" - "Sure!". Note to self: write patent for breast hair biometrics to sell to DHS.

"We have access to the Department of State records so we have photos of US Citizens, we have visa photos, we have,...
... WE HAVE EVERYTHING", said Panetta, drooling ?! Well, isn't it refreshing that you do not have to be in silicon valley to be incentivised by to to create new business models from big data analytics. Even if its loosing business models.

"Homeland Security estimates that roughly half a million visitors to the US overstay their visas each year,
but without a verifiable exit process, the government has no way to determine how many visitors are actually overstaying or who they are".

... SOme more info in: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2017/05/22/...verstay-report
... 739000 overstays - 628799 who did not leave at all

What gives ?
Biometrics at airports will not help on 628799 who did not leave at all!
Leaves 110,201 exit records that indicated overstay. Not 500,000.

How will biometric help for overstays that leave late from an airport ? How many of the overstayers leaving had wrong faces, aka: where wrong people ? Whats the thread analysis here...

So... I want to overstay... and i want to leave after the overstay. So i hire someone for $5, "hey, can you look & dress up like me", and send him to the airport to leave instead of me. Wait... didn't i want to leave ? Now i am still in the USA ... What am i ? idiot, spy, DHS fiction ?

Or: I want to overstay.. forever. So i want to fake my exit. But unless i am an idiot or DHS fiction, i would not fake my exit from the USA after my Visa expired, right ? But i would fake it while it has not yet. So.. how do i fake my exit before biometrics today (see my question from last mail). It seems as if today CBP would already be able to get an exit record from airlines customer manifest of airplanes leaving.

So, yes, there are 628799 who potentially never wanted to leave and could come in on a visa. But i can not find any evidence for folks who want to come into the country with the intent to stay beyond their visa time and stage an exit that biometrics could detect. Definitely not in the overstay URL above. Unless there is any evidence, its likely the same fiction as voter fraud (non-citizen voting). Also no real evidence.

I tried to call 1-800-hire-an-exit-record-shapeshifter , but no one picked up the phone!

Can someone explain to me whats this biometrics supposed to achieve to reduce overstay ? I don't get it.

Himeno

Forgot to mention this when it happened...
In early Nov, I was flying out of PHL on QR. After the boarding pass scan and through the door to the jet bridge, there were 2 CBP agents randomly pulling people out as they came past. They checked passports, scanned them through a handheld device and asked some questions (questions which were more appropriate for people entering a country rather then leaving). Device had a fingerprint scanner.

After CBP, there was a random security baggage check. I got pulled for that as well, then spent a few minutes waiting for them to be ready, only to get told it was fine, no check needed when they saw my J boarding pass.

Boggie Dog

I fail to understand why exit controls aren't already in place. If a person is allowed entry and that event is recorded shouldn't the exit event be documented as well?

bocastephen

No thanks - I don't need the government's permission as a citizen to leave the country, nor is it any of their business where I leave from, when I leave or where I'm going.

Boggie Dog

Wasn't thinking of citizens but for visitors.

bocastephen

How do you create an outbound exit control desk for visitors that doesn't capture US citizens, Canadian citizens or Green Card holders? Where is the space for this at many of the airports that have international flights? Unlike other countries, we were never set up for outbound immigration infrastructure, let alone allowing the government any chance to interfere with our right to depart and re-enter the country without needing permission.

This is why I carry two passports - I leave and re-enter the US on my US passport, but once I'm gone, it's none of the US govt's business where I go from there, hence the second passport.

GaryD

What's to stop a visitor from pretending to be a citizen, and slipping out without permission? We'll have to check all citizens too then, just in case. And what about "alleged citizens" who set sail in their sea craft, near Canada or Mexico or the Caribbean? Shouldn't they all be checked before they pass beyond the horizon, just in case? To document the event.