SaturdayKid

I am aware this subject has been explored I other threads recently but mainly about what passengers should not do. Is it time for a more positive approach? With Cisco predicting 50 billion mobile devices by 2020 (lowballing IBMs more bullish prediction of 1 trillion devices by 2015) is it time for the aviation industry to try to embrace the technology we all increasingly carry?

Whilst recognising that safety must be paramount, now it is getting on for 30 years since mobile telephony entered the mass market, personally I find airlines approach to this issue patronising to say the least. If there are genuine reasons why equipment interferes with the aircraft isn’t it time to explain this to passengers in more detail.

I had a really interesting conversation with a BA captain on a flight recently when I asked for some guidance on exactly what the rules are concerning using a Kindle when landing.

Apparently in the past there were situations where mobiles had interfered with some of the aircraft pressurisation systems which could potentially have caused a depressurisation incident at altitude. His feeling was that probably the quality of electrical insulation was significantly improved on new planes that potentially the risk was probably significantly reduced.

It was certainly refreshing to have someone give some informed insight to the nature of the problems that could occur. In my opinion airlines generally and certainly BA don’t help themselves by not providing more detailed explanations to their customers of the nature of the problems that could occur. Of course one should follow the instructions given by cabin crew, but it helps if you are treated like an adult rather than a naughty child, which in my experience does tend to be the attitude of a small but significant number of BA crew. Don’t passengers have a right to be treated as adults and provided with a detailed explanation of the potential risks? Perhaps far more detailed explanation in the High Life magazine? This could also reduce passenger resistance to the current rules.

I am not suggesting blanket approval of all electronic devices but with Apple, Google, Amazon etc. not exactly short of a bob or two, I would think it would be reasonable for them to fund some research by aviation regulators around the world to validate the current impact mobile devices on aircraft and then communicate an accurate assessment. Perhaps it is time for a formal certification programme for devices on a plane by plane basis? Are aircraft being built in 2012 still not able to handle technology that first appeared in 1985?

To be clear I am not advocating the use of mobiles for conversations on planes, like so many people I value the opportunity to get away from the phone which flying provides, but I can’t help thinking more clarity as to which devices can be used and when would improve understanding all round.

PanGalactic

Welcome to FT

Excellent post, you have articulated very well what a lot of other folks must be thinking.

Although I must say I do still get the du-duh du-duh du-duh on my car stereo from an iPhone4! and also that you just can't be messing with people's safety.

HIDDY

There are so many different types of these devices about nowadays that it must be very hard for the cabin crew to police the use of them at all stages of the flight.
So you can't really blame them for banning the use of mobile phones at all times and the use of all other devices at the beginning and end of the flight when advised to do so.
I cannot see them changing it all that much to be honest.

bernardd

Yes, modern aircraft are more tolerant of electrical interference, both from portable devices and from external events like thunderstorms, HOWEVER how old is the design (not the point of manufacture) of the aircraft systems currently in use? One interesting thing I learned from a contact in the USAF is parts used in the F16 were essentially obsolete before the aircraft entered service; the timescales for testing for both commercial & military aircraft are looooong.

Yes, there ought to be the potential to be more lenient on newer aircraft but how is that to be organized? Are we going to get to the point where, say, you can use certain devices on A319's but not on A320's? The 773 is OK, but the 744 is not? I can understand the airlines, CAA/FAA etc. preferring the lowest common denominator.

Finally, while it's possible to certify good, clean modern devices, a very big concern is devices that have been damaged, repaired or modified whose characteristics can be quite different from the unit that was type approved. A significant corollary to this is you change the EMI characteristics of a device everytime you hang an external lead on it. While it might be possible to certify, say, approved Apple accessories attached to an Apple device, what about all the cheap, unapproved add-ons? Or the countless add-ons attached to generic laptop computers?

FWIW, having worked in a business that had an EMI test lab I'm MUCH, MUCH happier to have all the junk completely off when the aircraft is close to the ground, closer to stalling speed and the margins for error are much smaller.

at240

Certifying devices on a plane by plane basis? -- this just isn't realistic. One can imagine the chaos that would ensue. (Excuse me sir, was your iDevice made in country X between dates Y and Z and does it have a serial number between P and Q?)

Unless (or until) we are in a situation where regulators are happy to allow all such devices, it is much more sensible to ban them.

I tend to carry two wonderful pieces of technology that keep me occupied no matter what plane I fly on. One is a book. The other is a cryptic crossword. Add those to the contents of a decent IFE system, and I can't ever see myself needing anything else.

NoWindowSeat

Good post but people who can't live w/o their phone/tablet during taxi,takeoff and landing can always fly private and do whatever they want..during the flight you can already use whatever you want..mobile networks on land are anyway not usable at 37.000ft (I've understood from people who know them..)

Internet connection will become the standard/service offering on most planes during the next 5-10years so also general public can communicate with moderate costs compared to today's satellite phones offered on most LH planes..

stueys

Agree with the sentiment but to be honest it's just not that big a deal is it? It's about 20 minutes out of the total flight when you can't use your kindle, iPad, etc. Surely the problem isn't significant enought to warrant a huge testing programme to prove devices are truely, completely safe across every type out there.

dunk

Whilst I understand the OP's frustration, I just don't see this being of sufficient priority for anyone (manufacturers, airlines, telcos, regulators) to invest the time and expense.

Add in the other variable factors mentioned above and it's sadly a non-starter.

henkybaby

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...kindle-ba.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...ely-rigid.html

For reference of course.

HIDDY

Yes the subject has been discussed to death many times before and usually ends up in a good old fashioned bun fight.

DWFI

There's no need to be absurd.
The OP's post is perfectly logical.


To those who say that there is a "small margin of error", are we conveniently forgetting that many airlines offer WiFi and Telephony features onboard? INCLUDING BA on the 318, with OnAir?

Lufthansa has Flynet. Delta and American have onboard WiFi.

American has over 100 MD-80 aircraft flying that are equipped with WiFi capability. Needless to say, tens of thousands of people use their devices on these networks, each and every day.

For those unfamiliar with the MD-80, it is based off of the DC-10, an aircraft which was designed in the 1960s. The MD-80 itself entered service in 1980.

Wait. Electronic devices are being used safely, EACH AND EVERY DAY, on an aircraft that entered service in 1980. To say that it is unsafe to use my devices on 777, A320, 787, A380, and other modern jetliners is simply patently absurd.

razMJ

Many airlines now let you call with your own mobile phone on the aeroplane? How has that change been managed?

chistery

As we discovered most people won't turn off devices, just place in standby so is there any difference between using a kindle or having it in standby in terms of the ability for it to interfere with the navigational equipment?

Prospero

As the core of this issue relates to Civil Aviation Authority policy, we'll move this discussion over to the Travel Safety/Security section

Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Airport & border security are big issues when we fly. This is the place to discuss security policies – what they are and what they should be.

Prospero
Moderator: BAEC forum

kirkbauer

That's one of the problems. As somebody who flew over 120 segments mostly in the NE US in 6 months, I can tell you that many times it is much, much, longer than 20 minutes to get into the air.