Expansion of PreCheck Announced - Does PreCheck Change Your Mind About TSA Policies?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
Expansion of PreCheck Announced - Does PreCheck Change Your Mind About TSA Policies?
I realize there are numerous points-of-view on the PreCheck trusted traveler program, the expansion of which was announced yesterday.
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,643
I realize there are numerous points-of-view on the PreCheck trusted traveler program, the expansion of which was announced yesterday.
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
Mike
#3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,702
I realize there are numerous points-of-view on the PreCheck trusted traveler program, the expansion of which was announced yesterday.
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
Admittedly, I'm of two minds. Since I'm listed in both airlines that are participating, I'll probably benefit when flying out of one of the airports in the pilot.
On the other hand, while it lowers the hassle factor for a few, it doesn't really change things for the overwhelming majority of flyers except perhaps to speed things up slightly because the PreCheck people will go through different lines (presuming that a lane was not closed just for PreCheck).
What do you all think?
Yes, right now it only benefits a few passegers as it is still a pilot program. But what about when it is eventually opened to all passengers to apply, and all airlines at all airports?
I know many FT members on the TS/S site contact their Congress person to protest/complain about TSA, but here is what Sen. Boxer thinks of this program.
http://boxer.senate.gov/en/press/releases/110911.cfm
#4
Original Poster
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#5
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: Delta Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Priority Platinum, National Executive
Posts: 93
Sen Boxer would be the LAST person I'd listen to an opinion of any Federal program. She's a liberal loon.
Unless a program actually eliminates some of the BS screening procedures (NoS, patdown, etc.) - it is useless in my mind. The elite airline FF lines already speed up the process, we just need to eliminate the useless screening that violates the civil rights of all Americans.
The TSA likes to think of themselves as the "last line of defense" for airline safety - but actually, it is the passengers and crew that are the last line, and best at identifying and stopping threats -as proven with the shoe bomber and BVD bomber attempts. The TSA screening didn't identify or stop those individuals - passengers with proper situational awareness identified the suspiocious behavior and assisted the crew in restraining the bad actors until the aircraft could safely land and the perp taken away by real LEOs.
Unless a program actually eliminates some of the BS screening procedures (NoS, patdown, etc.) - it is useless in my mind. The elite airline FF lines already speed up the process, we just need to eliminate the useless screening that violates the civil rights of all Americans.
The TSA likes to think of themselves as the "last line of defense" for airline safety - but actually, it is the passengers and crew that are the last line, and best at identifying and stopping threats -as proven with the shoe bomber and BVD bomber attempts. The TSA screening didn't identify or stop those individuals - passengers with proper situational awareness identified the suspiocious behavior and assisted the crew in restraining the bad actors until the aircraft could safely land and the perp taken away by real LEOs.
#6
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: in the sky
Posts: 490
ADA compliant or discriminatory?
There is a similar thread discussing the practical points of this program, but just in case there's someone reading this one that has any knowledge of this, I ask again.
I would like to know if pre-check participation changes anything significant for disabled travelers that are unable to use WTMD or other scanners. Will the mandatory pat-down procedures change or be eliminated by any percentage at all for medical opt-out participants?
I would like to know if pre-check participation changes anything significant for disabled travelers that are unable to use WTMD or other scanners. Will the mandatory pat-down procedures change or be eliminated by any percentage at all for medical opt-out participants?
#7
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Don't get me wrong ... I'm guessing this will be A Good Thing. But I'm only guessing at this point --- and so is everyone else.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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No animals should be more equal than others.
Everyone should go through the same screening to access the sterile area, including TSA and airline employees. X-ray of belongings, walk though / hand held metal detector, and Explosive Trace Detection / Explosive Trace Portal. Nothing more, nothing less.
Everyone should go through the same screening to access the sterile area, including TSA and airline employees. X-ray of belongings, walk though / hand held metal detector, and Explosive Trace Detection / Explosive Trace Portal. Nothing more, nothing less.
#9
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,444
I have a sneaky feeling that foreigners are never going to be able to apply for this. As a result, when 60% of the flying public is elligible, we will automatically become targets of extra-special super-duper horrible screening tactics for those of us who suspitiously have passports and speak another language.
To put it mildly, Im not optimistic at all.
No one should have to remove shoes, liquids or laptops at the checkpoint.
To put it mildly, Im not optimistic at all.
No one should have to remove shoes, liquids or laptops at the checkpoint.
#12
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
Yes, right now it only benefits a few passegers as it is still a pilot program. But what about when it is eventually opened to all passengers to apply, and all airlines at all airports?
I know many FT members on the TS/S site contact their Congress person to protest/complain about TSA, but here is what Sen. Boxer thinks of this program.
http://boxer.senate.gov/en/press/releases/110911.cfm
I know many FT members on the TS/S site contact their Congress person to protest/complain about TSA, but here is what Sen. Boxer thinks of this program.
http://boxer.senate.gov/en/press/releases/110911.cfm
#13
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
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Posts: 6,704
Does "all passengers" include those who fly one round-trip every third year to visit grandchildren on the other side of the country, on a carefully researched discounted economy fare, for whom a $100 application fee would be too expensive? After all, such people fly within the USA every day.
Does "all passengers" include those who fly rarely, on different airlines, and therefore don't belong to or qualify for an airline's frequent flyer or elite program? After all, such people fly within the USA every day.
Does "all passengers" include a person who has never flown before but suddenly needs to fly across the country at short notice - to see a dying relative or go for a last-minute job interview - and won't have time for an application process? After all, such people fly within the USA every day.
Until the answer to all of the above is "yes", all this program is doing is creating a two-class society at the airport. And despite the fact that I don't belong to any of the groups listed above, I don't think that's acceptable. And as BubbaLoop said, I suspect it will make things even worse for the "have nots" as the entire TSA workfarce can concentrate its efforts on the "suspicious" minority.
#14
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
Why should I feel better about a program which treats a very small percentage of travellers the way that the vast majority of airline travellers are currently treated around the world? (Well, frankly there is still the human element, and I don't believe that will improve with this program, so I still think that we will continue to be treated better outside the US, even with the program in place)
As RadioGirl points out, most likely it will continue to exclude a large number of people, including those of us who have clearance higher than most FTers, but who will most likely not qualify for any such program in the US.
Forgive me for being a little cynical, but I just passed through an airport security checkpoint moments ago in the US. It is one of the largest and a major international gateway yet I was singled out for my 'furrinerness' and had a significant delay as a result of not fitting the mold that the security staff were expecting at their checkpoint.
As RadioGirl points out, most likely it will continue to exclude a large number of people, including those of us who have clearance higher than most FTers, but who will most likely not qualify for any such program in the US.
Forgive me for being a little cynical, but I just passed through an airport security checkpoint moments ago in the US. It is one of the largest and a major international gateway yet I was singled out for my 'furrinerness' and had a significant delay as a result of not fitting the mold that the security staff were expecting at their checkpoint.
Last edited by exbayern; Nov 10, 2011 at 7:20 pm Reason: I'm 'furrin', not 'furri'!
#15
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
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I understand the Animal Farm reference, yet I would like to post a contrary opinion.
80+ times per year I have my name compared to any number of secret lists and each time I am cleared.
80+ times per year I present a valid ID to the TDC and get the magic squiggle.
80+ times per year I voluntarily submit my possessions for an xray inspection and whether it is initially cleared or must undergo additional tests, it always clears.
80+ times a year I submit to a screening of my person that may include WTMD or a scan of my virtually naked body, or a opt out and frisk from the same.
80+ times a year my checked luggage is voluntarily submitted for screening and physical inspection as needed, every time without incident.
Except for the times I use an unrecognized NEXUS, or insist on not being visually separated from my belongings, or add to their work by opting out, my clearing is uneventful.
As a practical matter, my screening could be less intensive than the occasional traveler, not because I am an any way special or better, but simply because I have a history that shows that I have a high likelihood of trustworthiness. It is not to say that the casual traveler is not trustworthy. It only says that they have not had an opportunity based on repeated successful clearings to demonstrate that trustworthiness.
80+ times per year I have my name compared to any number of secret lists and each time I am cleared.
80+ times per year I present a valid ID to the TDC and get the magic squiggle.
80+ times per year I voluntarily submit my possessions for an xray inspection and whether it is initially cleared or must undergo additional tests, it always clears.
80+ times a year I submit to a screening of my person that may include WTMD or a scan of my virtually naked body, or a opt out and frisk from the same.
80+ times a year my checked luggage is voluntarily submitted for screening and physical inspection as needed, every time without incident.
Except for the times I use an unrecognized NEXUS, or insist on not being visually separated from my belongings, or add to their work by opting out, my clearing is uneventful.
As a practical matter, my screening could be less intensive than the occasional traveler, not because I am an any way special or better, but simply because I have a history that shows that I have a high likelihood of trustworthiness. It is not to say that the casual traveler is not trustworthy. It only says that they have not had an opportunity based on repeated successful clearings to demonstrate that trustworthiness.