Don't read books about airplanes while on an airplane.
Aug 25, 2011, 3:05 pm
#91
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CMH
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion, United
Posts: 433
A Boston Globe blog picked up the story and provided a couple updates:
...United spokesman Charles Hobart emailed the Globe this statement: “The service Mr. Gilbert described does not reflect the experience we aim to deliver our customers. We are reaching out to Mr. Gilbert and to Shuttle America, the United Express carrier that operated the flight, to better understand what occurred and to ensure Mr. Gilbert knows we value his business.”
In an interview this evening, Gilbert said he has been contacted by United and is arranging a time to discuss the incident.
In an interview this evening, Gilbert said he has been contacted by United and is arranging a time to discuss the incident.
Aug 25, 2011, 3:05 pm
#92
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PIT
Programs: OZ Diamond, UA Gold
Posts: 9,919
There's another explanation ... but it forces me to bring up an aspect of this story that hasn't been mentioned to date (much to my relief).
The victim is African-American.
For better or for worse, people of color in this country have been unjustly treated by those in authority for a long time. Many have decided, when confronted with such behavior, to simply submit to the injustice, and deal with the ramifications later. (When you're pulled over for Driving While Black by a Good Ole Boy, arguing with the guy with the firearm, the billy club, and the handcuffs about the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment is not likely to lead to enlightenment.)
That's what I read into his story. Throwing a fit on the aircraft would've likely resulted in his being denied the ability to fly at all that day. He made the choice to fight on a battleground of his own choosing, not the airline's --- and a battleground where he'd have a much better opportunity to prevail.
It is tragic that such choices are forced upon people. I don't know if I would make that choice. But having lived a life of relative privilege, I have no right to judge a man when I have never walked in his shoes.
The victim is African-American.
For better or for worse, people of color in this country have been unjustly treated by those in authority for a long time. Many have decided, when confronted with such behavior, to simply submit to the injustice, and deal with the ramifications later. (When you're pulled over for Driving While Black by a Good Ole Boy, arguing with the guy with the firearm, the billy club, and the handcuffs about the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment is not likely to lead to enlightenment.)
That's what I read into his story. Throwing a fit on the aircraft would've likely resulted in his being denied the ability to fly at all that day. He made the choice to fight on a battleground of his own choosing, not the airline's --- and a battleground where he'd have a much better opportunity to prevail.
It is tragic that such choices are forced upon people. I don't know if I would make that choice. But having lived a life of relative privilege, I have no right to judge a man when I have never walked in his shoes.
I have to agree, if he had thrown a fit, they would have been terrible to him. Much worse then a white man, but much less then an Aribic looking man. It is the country we live in, unfourtenetly
Aug 25, 2011, 3:39 pm
#93
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
Aug 25, 2011, 4:03 pm
#95
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
I am not sure where all of this discussion about race is coming from. The only claim of race being a issue is from the passenger because he is black. Someone please point out where race was involved in the decision of the FA to send an alarming message to the Captain, who then made the decision to abort the flight. We have no idea what was in the message conveyed to the Captain. I read that the FA(race unknown) was overly concerned that the passenger wanted to keep his hand carried nearby and was reading an aircraft magazine that could have been purchased in the bookstore after security. This is what the police inquired about and there were ok with the answers.
Until I read what the FA conveyed to the Captain, and I believe the reasons for the abort would be on FAA control tower tapes, I am not buying the race card allegations.
I mentioned this incident to an SW First Captain neighbor and he said if he had been called out to talk to the passenger he would have asked to read the magazine after the pax was done with it!!
I wonder what would have happened if a white,elderly, retired LEO was reading a copy of Combat Handguns,Tactical Weapons, or Guns & Ammo.
.
Until I read what the FA conveyed to the Captain, and I believe the reasons for the abort would be on FAA control tower tapes, I am not buying the race card allegations.
I mentioned this incident to an SW First Captain neighbor and he said if he had been called out to talk to the passenger he would have asked to read the magazine after the pax was done with it!!
I wonder what would have happened if a white,elderly, retired LEO was reading a copy of Combat Handguns,Tactical Weapons, or Guns & Ammo.
.
Aug 25, 2011, 4:51 pm
#96
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
I have no opinion on whether or not race was a factor in the accusation made against the passenger; there's no evidence in play to support that conclusion.
My comment was about the speculation over why the passenger seemingly reacted meekly to these events. To that question, I offered the following answer: some members of racial minorities have chosen to always respond to authorities in a compliant manner, whether or not the authorities have reasonable cause for their accusations, because of bad experiences with racist authorities.
For the armchair quarterbacks here who might like to give advice to this passenger about how he ought to have handled the situation, I simply say ... things are never as simple as they seem when you've had a different set of life experiences.
Aug 25, 2011, 5:14 pm
#97
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
I don't believe that I mentioned or quoted you.
I agree.
In addition, do we really know the complete story? Not so far.........
.
For the armchair quarterbacks here who might like to give advice to this passenger about how he ought to have handled the situation, I simply say ... things are never as simple as they seem when you've had a different set of life experiences.
In addition, do we really know the complete story? Not so far.........
.
Aug 25, 2011, 5:20 pm
#98
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,657
Well, I was the one who brought it up in the first place. Plus, I'm naturally paranoid ... 
As always. Though at least the initial statement from United isn't a knee-jerk defense of its own employees ...
As always. Though at least the initial statement from United isn't a knee-jerk defense of its own employees ...
Aug 25, 2011, 6:18 pm
#99
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Actually I think Mr. Gilbert started the ball rolling with allegations in his personal website.
Just listen to more of Buffalo Springfield and you will be cured..
Repeating myself:
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away"
..
Plus, I'm naturally paranoid ...
Repeating myself:
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away"
..
Aug 25, 2011, 9:21 pm
#100
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,974
I am not sure where all of this discussion about race is coming from. The only claim of race being a issue is from the passenger because he is black. Someone please point out where race was involved in the decision of the FA to send an alarming message to the Captain, who then made the decision to abort the flight. We have no idea what was in the message conveyed to the Captain. I read that the FA(race unknown) was overly concerned that the passenger wanted to keep his hand carried nearby and was reading an aircraft magazine that could have been purchased in the bookstore after security. This is what the police inquired about and there were ok with the answers.
Until I read what the FA conveyed to the Captain, and I believe the reasons for the abort would be on FAA control tower tapes, I am not buying the race card allegations.
I mentioned this incident to an SW First Captain neighbor and he said if he had been called out to talk to the passenger he would have asked to read the magazine after the pax was done with it!!
I wonder what would have happened if a white,elderly, retired LEO was reading a copy of Combat Handguns,Tactical Weapons, or Guns & Ammo.
.
Until I read what the FA conveyed to the Captain, and I believe the reasons for the abort would be on FAA control tower tapes, I am not buying the race card allegations.
I mentioned this incident to an SW First Captain neighbor and he said if he had been called out to talk to the passenger he would have asked to read the magazine after the pax was done with it!!
I wonder what would have happened if a white,elderly, retired LEO was reading a copy of Combat Handguns,Tactical Weapons, or Guns & Ammo.
.
Of course we don't know any details of the conversation(s), only Gilbert's assertion they were not 'belligerent' in nature. Race may or may not have been a factor, as could other things not reported. I'm glad UA is taking this seriously one way or the other.
Aug 26, 2011, 7:21 am
#101
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Indian Harbour Beach, Fla, USA
Programs: AA Lifetime Plt
Posts: 1,986
I'm a subscriber to the Smithsonian Institution's Air & Space magazine, and regularly read my latest copy while flying.
When I've finished it, I often offer it to the flight crew as I exit the aircraft and fairly regularly one of them accepts it with thanks.
When I've finished it, I often offer it to the flight crew as I exit the aircraft and fairly regularly one of them accepts it with thanks.
Aug 26, 2011, 3:12 pm
#102
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Sunshine State
Programs: Deltaworst Peon Level, TSA "Layer 21 Club", NW WP RIP
Posts: 11,370
I think this book would freak out the nervous Nellies on your next flight. 
(It is actually an excellent book for those interested in the hardware they are sitting in. ^)
Of course, to freak out both your fellow passengers and the TSA checkpoint clerks looking for The Big Catch™, there is no finer book than this one to Really set them off.
(also an excellent book.)
(It is actually an excellent book for those interested in the hardware they are sitting in. ^)Of course, to freak out both your fellow passengers and the TSA checkpoint clerks looking for The Big Catch™, there is no finer book than this one to Really set them off.
(also an excellent book.)
Sep 3, 2011, 8:17 pm
#103
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,007
I'm a subscriber to the Smithsonian Institution's Air & Space magazine, and regularly read my latest copy while flying.
When I've finished it, I often offer it to the flight crew as I exit the aircraft and fairly regularly one of them accepts it with thanks.
When I've finished it, I often offer it to the flight crew as I exit the aircraft and fairly regularly one of them accepts it with thanks.
Sep 3, 2011, 9:42 pm
#104
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Programs: AA EXP 3MM, FB Plat, AS Gold, Marriott Gold, Fairmont Plat, BA wannabe
Posts: 684
I think this book would freak out the nervous Nellies on your next flight. (It is actually an excellent book for those interested in the hardware they are sitting in. ^)
Of course, to freak out both your fellow passengers and the TSA checkpoint clerks looking for The Big Catch™, there is no finer book than this one to Really set them off. (also an excellent book.)
(It is actually an excellent book for those interested in the hardware they are sitting in. ^)Of course, to freak out both your fellow passengers and the TSA checkpoint clerks looking for The Big Catch™, there is no finer book than this one to Really set them off.
(also an excellent book.)
Sep 4, 2011, 11:09 am
#105
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SAN
Posts: 284
Interesting incident. As a pilot I frequently take multiple copies of AOPA's flight training magazine to read on flights as I very often never get around to reading them and a long flight is a good place to catch up. Never had any issues so far. On one occasion I was singled out by the TSA for extra screening while checking in. The TSA guy found the magazines but it did not result in anything other than having a conversation about flying (apparently he has a friend who is a pilot and files out of the same airfield that I do).