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Old Aug 11, 11, 7:01 am   #1
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German Police Say Body Scanners Are Useless

I'm surprised I didn't see this already posted....

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive..._police_c.html

Quote:
The weekly Welt am Sonntag, quoting a police report, said 35 percent of the 730,000 passengers checked by the scanners set off the alarm more than once despite being innocent.

The report said the machines were confused by several layers of clothing, boots, zip fasteners and even pleats, while in 10 percent of cases the passenger's posture set them off.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 7:34 am   #2
  
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Just proves that the Germans are smarter than anyone at TSA or DHS.

And that they don't have anyone who's out to profit from these useless voodoo machines.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 7:40 am   #3
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...=german+police
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Old Aug 11, 11, 7:42 am   #4
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Do we know if the Germany test was with MMW, Backscatter or both?
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Old Aug 11, 11, 8:11 am   #5
  
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They also said the US manufacturer L3 Communications should make them work faster.
I'm guessing that means they were MMW.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 8:51 am   #6
  
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Obviously, what needs to be done here is to require passengers to remove zip fasteners, pleats and bad posture at the checkpoint.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 8:54 am   #7
  
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Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow View Post
Obviously, what needs to be done here is to require passengers to remove zip fasteners, pleats and bad posture at the checkpoint.
Somebody's going to get hurt with that bad posture! No soup for You!
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Old Aug 11, 11, 11:17 am   #8
  
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i didn't see any IN frankfurt
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Old Aug 11, 11, 11:18 am   #9
  
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Originally Posted by FriendlySkies View Post
bet you were happy to see germany not using them.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 12:18 pm   #10
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Originally Posted by TWAB747nomore View Post
i didn't see any IN frankfurt
That'll be because there were never any there, or in any other German airport besides HAM.

To respond to the question up the thread, they were MMW with automated threat detection.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 1:25 pm   #11
  
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Originally Posted by gfunkdave View Post
I'm surprised I didn't see this already posted....
I have been doing regular updates since the test began in 2010 in Germany, and as FS linked I posted just as the test came to an end.

Thanks stifle for answering the questions. I haven't done an update on the tests in Italy and Finland recently but this report from an Austrian paper from January 2010 is a little disturbing - Finland will only (if they do get the scanner) scan people based on country of origin and/or religion, due to the extra time required to use scanners.

http://derstandard.at/1263705304695/...ruefen?seite=2

I cannot find any updates in German or French of the 2011 limited test/retest of the scanners in Italy, or the limited test in Finland.

Every single news report I have found in German calls the scanner test a failure. The findings will be interesting once they are reported.
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Old Aug 11, 11, 5:37 pm   #12
  
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Originally Posted by bluenotesro View Post
Just proves that the Germans are smarter than anyone at TSA or DHS.

And that they don't have anyone who's out to profit from these useless voodoo machines.
Smarter or just more honest? I'll bet the American experience is the same but TSA is deliberately NOT collecting stats that can be used against their playthings. That's what you get with a contractors' government like ours. Protect the companies fulfilling government contracts, to heck with the public!
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Old Aug 11, 11, 7:33 pm   #13
  
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You're correct about the contractors in this country, LuvAirFrance but I dare say, from my own experience, that those manning security in Munich and Frankfurt are smarter and more professional than the numbskulls in US airports.

Just my opinion.
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Old Aug 12, 11, 1:06 am   #14
  
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Professional, polite, friendly, customer service oriented.... And there is generally plain clothed (management?) standing beyond the checkpoint at MUC with the police, observing and ready to provide assistance if required.

It is a completely different experience for me. I do think that that message however is sometimes diluted by the FTers who complain about the 'extra' security not realising that is (or used to be) for US bound flights on US carriers and is at the 'request' of the US government. For the rest of us, I think that the experience tends to be dramatically different.
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Old Aug 12, 11, 9:25 am   #15
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Originally Posted by exbayern View Post
Every single news report I have found in German calls the scanner test a failure. The findings will be interesting once they are reported.
What will be particularly interesting to me is what actions the German authorities take going forward.

Will the German authorities act like TSA, disregard any negative findings and install the machines everywhere?

Or will the German authorities decide that eventually finding the 'right' solution is wiser than immediately doing something ill-thought out and ineffective?

As LuvAirFrance pointed out, the US is a contractor's government, so the most important criteria here is finding a product that will line the right pockets, whether or not it does the job.
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