TSA Confiscates Pregnant Woman's Insulin, Ice Packs
Aug 7, 2011, 5:20 pm
#151
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't prove you right or wrong in either direction. And frankly, you can't either, which is the crux of the problem. Discussions over the internet never have a guaranteed level of credibility.
Which brings me to the point, which is you can't prove anything either. You (and Bart, and TSORon) like to tell us how wrong we are...
Which brings me to the point, which is you can't prove anything either. You (and Bart, and TSORon) like to tell us how wrong we are...
Aug 7, 2011, 8:49 pm
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
Now linked on Drudge. The story has made the big time!
Aug 8, 2011, 10:18 am
#153
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 966
What part of "minute" do you not understand. At every checkpoint I've been to, there are lots of signs. One of those signs usually talks about medical supplies.
She cannot be expected to know any changing rules but the basic rule of "I need my meds and they're allowed" hasn't (and won't) change.
She is at fault for quietly giving them up. The fact that she made a big stink afterwards (complete with granny [or whoever] smuggling a few drops through, in conjunction with "I don't want to give my name" makes it sound a bit like publicity stunt.
She'll probably be on GMA next week with a bag over her head.
I'm lucky that the only meds I take are for allergies, but you can bet your last dime that nobody takes my Zyrtec unless they replace it for me on the other side of the checkpoint. That's only common sense. It appears that both the passenger and the TSA dolts were lacking that.
She cannot be expected to know any changing rules but the basic rule of "I need my meds and they're allowed" hasn't (and won't) change.
She is at fault for quietly giving them up. The fact that she made a big stink afterwards (complete with granny [or whoever] smuggling a few drops through, in conjunction with "I don't want to give my name" makes it sound a bit like publicity stunt.
She'll probably be on GMA next week with a bag over her head.
I'm lucky that the only meds I take are for allergies, but you can bet your last dime that nobody takes my Zyrtec unless they replace it for me on the other side of the checkpoint. That's only common sense. It appears that both the passenger and the TSA dolts were lacking that.
*NO* blame applies to the COMPLETELY INNOCENT PASSENGER who suffered the THEFT OF HER PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS by a government screener who's PAID TO KNOW THAT SUCH SUBSTANCES ARE FREAKING EXPLICITLY PERMITTED BY THEIR OWN FREAKING RULES. That screener gets EVERY SINGLE LITTLE BIT of the blame in this situation - the passenger was 100.0000% the victim.
When you enter a building, get in a cab, walk onto a train, do you expect that someone will have stolen something in your carryon bag? Are you constantly checking to ensure that no one's lifted a $20 out of your wallet? More pertinently, when you hand a briefcase, or computer bag, or something similar, to someone else to examine - especially someone in a position of (imagined) authority, does it EVEN CROSS YOUR MIND that they've taken something out of it and not told you?
for even SUGGESTING that someone who is victimized and physically endangered by a government employee's criminal actions is in *ANY* way at fault.
Aug 8, 2011, 10:21 am
#154
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 175
NO.
*NO* blame applies to the COMPLETELY INNOCENT PASSENGER who suffered the THEFT OF HER PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS by a government screener for even SUGGESTING that someone who is victimized and physically endangered by a government employee's criminal actions is in *ANY* way at fault.
*NO* blame applies to the COMPLETELY INNOCENT PASSENGER who suffered the THEFT OF HER PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS by a government screener
for even SUGGESTING that someone who is victimized and physically endangered by a government employee's criminal actions is in *ANY* way at fault.Just like blaming a rape victim for being raped.
Aug 8, 2011, 10:30 am
#156
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,110
Just a note, the TSA Blog, in support of the Constitutions Protection of Free Speech, seems to be limiting discussion of this topic.
We should send our thanks to Blogdad Blog for trashing the United States Constitution.
How can a government agency run a tax payer funded blog and violate not only the Oath these government employees swore to but do it with impunity?
We should send our thanks to Blogdad Blog for trashing the United States Constitution.
How can a government agency run a tax payer funded blog and violate not only the Oath these government employees swore to but do it with impunity?
Aug 8, 2011, 12:27 pm
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,644
The TSA, even though they are apologizing, question the woman's story and believe there was some kind of misunderstanding.
Sounds like the same type of apology that an athlete makes after he/she screws up, i.e., "I apologize if anyone was offended by my actions..."[/quote]
“We talked to all of our people and they didn’t touch her insulin," said TSA spokeswoman Pat Ahlstrom.
Speaking of water...
Ahlstrom said ice packs are only allowed if they’re completely frozen and the woman’s were not.
No, no retraining necessary. After all, none of the TSOs did anything wrong.
Human nature.
We talk about the best and the worst.
The 'best' doesn't require any 'follow-up' (other than submitting a positive feedback form - if you can get one - took me almost 25 minutes).
The 'worst' events are not only notable in themselves, they also beg for follow-up action. That frequently generates discussion.
On sites frequented solely or largely by TSOs, I wonder how many posts are 'I had a great experience with a pax today' and how many are along the lines of "Let me tell you about the 'fare' that came through my checkpoint today, what a jerk".
If I posted a similar question to SATTSO's on the BLOG, I wonder what kind of response I would get. Would 'BoB' rush to assure me that the pax who post there are 'respected'?
We talk about the best and the worst.
The 'best' doesn't require any 'follow-up' (other than submitting a positive feedback form - if you can get one - took me almost 25 minutes).
The 'worst' events are not only notable in themselves, they also beg for follow-up action. That frequently generates discussion.
On sites frequented solely or largely by TSOs, I wonder how many posts are 'I had a great experience with a pax today' and how many are along the lines of "Let me tell you about the 'fare' that came through my checkpoint today, what a jerk".
If I posted a similar question to SATTSO's on the BLOG, I wonder what kind of response I would get. Would 'BoB' rush to assure me that the pax who post there are 'respected'?
Mike
Aug 8, 2011, 12:48 pm
#158
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 616
I'm confused about the ice pack issue. The TSA website says the following is allowed:
"All prescription and over-the-counter medications (liquids, gels, and aerosols) including petroleum jelly, eye drops, and saline solution for medical purposes;
Liquids including water, juice, or liquid nutrition or gels for passengers with a disability or medical condition;
Life-support and life-sustaining liquids such as bone marrow, blood products, and transplant organs;
Items used to augment the body for medical or cosmetic reasons such as mastectomy products, prosthetic breasts, bras or shells containing gels, saline solution, or other liquids; and,
Frozen items are allowed as long as they are frozen solid when presented for screening. If frozen items are partially melted, slushy, or have any liquid at the bottom of the container, they must meet 3-1-1 requirements."
Wouldn't an ice pack fall into one of these categories, other than the last one about the frozen items. It is used to keep a medically necessary item cold. I think it would fall into the second category about liquids. As a diabetic, I should be able to take juice or other sugary drinks through security. I may try that next time I fly. I have 6-8oz bottle of juice at home that I wouldn't care if I had to surrender. I may work up to a 20 oz bottle of soda if I can get the juice through. I'll carry a printout of the TSA website.
"All prescription and over-the-counter medications (liquids, gels, and aerosols) including petroleum jelly, eye drops, and saline solution for medical purposes;
Liquids including water, juice, or liquid nutrition or gels for passengers with a disability or medical condition;
Life-support and life-sustaining liquids such as bone marrow, blood products, and transplant organs;
Items used to augment the body for medical or cosmetic reasons such as mastectomy products, prosthetic breasts, bras or shells containing gels, saline solution, or other liquids; and,
Frozen items are allowed as long as they are frozen solid when presented for screening. If frozen items are partially melted, slushy, or have any liquid at the bottom of the container, they must meet 3-1-1 requirements."
Wouldn't an ice pack fall into one of these categories, other than the last one about the frozen items. It is used to keep a medically necessary item cold. I think it would fall into the second category about liquids. As a diabetic, I should be able to take juice or other sugary drinks through security. I may try that next time I fly. I have 6-8oz bottle of juice at home that I wouldn't care if I had to surrender. I may work up to a 20 oz bottle of soda if I can get the juice through. I'll carry a printout of the TSA website.
Aug 8, 2011, 2:49 pm
#159
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Ahlstrom said ice packs are only allowed if they’re completely frozen and the woman’s were not.
Aug 8, 2011, 3:44 pm
#161
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 302
NO.
*NO* blame applies to the COMPLETELY INNOCENT PASSENGER who suffered the THEFT OF HER PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS by a government screener who's PAID TO KNOW THAT SUCH SUBSTANCES ARE FREAKING EXPLICITLY PERMITTED BY THEIR OWN FREAKING RULES. That screener gets EVERY SINGLE LITTLE BIT of the blame in this situation - the passenger was 100.0000% the victim.
When you enter a building, get in a cab, walk onto a train, do you expect that someone will have stolen something in your carryon bag? Are you constantly checking to ensure that no one's lifted a $20 out of your wallet? More pertinently, when you hand a briefcase, or computer bag, or something similar, to someone else to examine - especially someone in a position of (imagined) authority, does it EVEN CROSS YOUR MIND that they've taken something out of it and not told you?
for even SUGGESTING that someone who is victimized and physically endangered by a government employee's criminal actions is in *ANY* way at fault.
*NO* blame applies to the COMPLETELY INNOCENT PASSENGER who suffered the THEFT OF HER PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS by a government screener who's PAID TO KNOW THAT SUCH SUBSTANCES ARE FREAKING EXPLICITLY PERMITTED BY THEIR OWN FREAKING RULES. That screener gets EVERY SINGLE LITTLE BIT of the blame in this situation - the passenger was 100.0000% the victim.
When you enter a building, get in a cab, walk onto a train, do you expect that someone will have stolen something in your carryon bag? Are you constantly checking to ensure that no one's lifted a $20 out of your wallet? More pertinently, when you hand a briefcase, or computer bag, or something similar, to someone else to examine - especially someone in a position of (imagined) authority, does it EVEN CROSS YOUR MIND that they've taken something out of it and not told you?
for even SUGGESTING that someone who is victimized and physically endangered by a government employee's criminal actions is in *ANY* way at fault.You guys are so blinded by your hatred of everything TSA that you can't see the bigger picture.
Yes, the screener was wrong for taking it, but the passenger should have said "wait a mnute, I need this stuff and there's a big sign over there that says that it is allowed. Either let me take it or call your supervisor."
You guys are always telling people to stand up for their rights and and belittle them when they aquiesce.
This has nothing to do with being afraid of future harassment, there are too many ways of resolving this issue where she would not be "scared of retribution."
What ever happened to taking responsibility for yourself? If I needed meds that were allowed (per signage at the checkpoint) then no pipsqueak screener will take them from me without an argument.
Aug 8, 2011, 4:05 pm
#162
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 82
Horsemanure.
You guys are so blinded by your hatred of everything TSA that you can't see the bigger picture.
Yes, the screener was wrong for taking it, but the passenger should have said "wait a mnute, I need this stuff and there's a big sign over there that says that it is allowed. Either let me take it or call your supervisor."
You guys are always telling people to stand up for their rights and and belittle them when they aquiesce.
This has nothing to do with being afraid of future harassment, there are too many ways of resolving this issue where she would not be "scared of retribution."
What ever happened to taking responsibility for yourself? If I needed meds that were allowed (per signage at the checkpoint) then no pipsqueak screener will take them from me without an argument.
You guys are so blinded by your hatred of everything TSA that you can't see the bigger picture.
Yes, the screener was wrong for taking it, but the passenger should have said "wait a mnute, I need this stuff and there's a big sign over there that says that it is allowed. Either let me take it or call your supervisor."
You guys are always telling people to stand up for their rights and and belittle them when they aquiesce.
This has nothing to do with being afraid of future harassment, there are too many ways of resolving this issue where she would not be "scared of retribution."
What ever happened to taking responsibility for yourself? If I needed meds that were allowed (per signage at the checkpoint) then no pipsqueak screener will take them from me without an argument.
Plenty of people have already said, "Yeah, it would have been great if she would have noticed sooner/forced the issue/reminded the screeners of her rights." And sure, it would have. She's probably said the same thing to herself a million times by now. Would it have helped if she had been paying more attention/less nervous/less intimidated/had more time before her flight/not had to go to the bathroom quite so bad/whatever? I'm sure.
But the bottom line is this: the TSA is the only party here who broke any actual rules and bears any actual, formal responsibility.
The passenger's job is to present all carryon items for screening, and to cooperate with the screeners. She did that.
The TSA's job is to properly screen all carryon items and ensure that no prohibited items enter the secure area, tasks that include allowing medically necessary items through and not stealing people's stuff. They failed to do this.
No amount of "well she shoulda said something" changes the fact that the TSA acted improperly and in direct violation of one of the few rules that they are reasonably clear and public about. They are ones who did not do their job, they are the ones who should suffer the consequences.
Aug 8, 2011, 4:26 pm
#163
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 302
I think her concern as soon as she cleared the checkpoint is what to say on GMA. The "granny smuggled a half vial through" pretty much sums up her actions from here on out.
The more vocal amonst this group will never agree with me. The ones who agree with me will just stay quiet in order not to incur the wrath of the vocal bunch.
Let me say it again. The screener was at fault, but the passenger could have resolved it easily and without any fuss - and that is her fault.
Aug 8, 2011, 4:34 pm
#164
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
"Ahlstrom said ice packs are only allowed if they’re completely frozen and the woman’s were not."
Wow, this is a new level of STUPIDITY. At some point, ice is going to melt. With the security lines being so long and slow (thanks to the scanners), the ice might melt by the time a passenger gets to the screening area. I mean, don't they teach kids that solid ice melts into a liquid in elementary school?!!!!!!!!!! What happens if the airport stores will not give you ice unless you buy something and make a purchase? What happens if the airplane runs out of ice? Some medications need to be kept cold. It's a pity that not more of the overweight TSO's don't already have diabetes. Perhaps then, they would understand the complications of traveling with diabetes.
Wow, this is a new level of STUPIDITY. At some point, ice is going to melt. With the security lines being so long and slow (thanks to the scanners), the ice might melt by the time a passenger gets to the screening area. I mean, don't they teach kids that solid ice melts into a liquid in elementary school?!!!!!!!!!! What happens if the airport stores will not give you ice unless you buy something and make a purchase? What happens if the airplane runs out of ice? Some medications need to be kept cold. It's a pity that not more of the overweight TSO's don't already have diabetes. Perhaps then, they would understand the complications of traveling with diabetes.
Aug 8, 2011, 5:05 pm
#165
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 516
How do you know that asking for a supervisor would have resolved it "easily and without any fuss"? Or is that your assumption?