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Old Jun 26, 11, 9:54 am   #1
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EPIC v. DHS: New FOIA'd Documents Raise New Questions About WBI Radiation

I thought there was a thread re: the EPIC lawsuit, but didn't find it. My apologies if I missed it.

In any case, EPIC received new docs from TSA/DHS. Same story in a different format here, with links to actual documents further down the page.


Quote:
The documents raise new questions concerning the radiation risks posed by the TSA full body scanner program. The records demonstrate:
  • TSA employees have identified cancer clusters allegedly linked to radiation exposure while operating body scanners and other screening technology. However, the agency failed to issue employees dosimeters - safety devices that would warn of radiation exposure.
  • The DHS has publicly mischaracterized the findings of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, stating that NIST "affirmed the safety" of full body scanners. NIST stated that the Institute did not, in fact, test full body scanners for safety, and that the Institute does not do product testing.
  • A Johns Hopkins University study revealed that radiation zones around body scanners could exceed the “General Public Dose Limit.”
  • A NIST study warns airport screeners to avoid standing next to full body scanners.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 5:49 pm   #2
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What a surprise...TSA misleading the public once again. Color me shocked.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 6:37 pm   #3
  
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Originally Posted by mersk862 View Post
What a surprise...TSA misleading the public once again. Color me shocked.
What with the cancer clusters TSA has at some airports, I really wouldn't be all that surprised to find x-ray machines operating with covers not in place or safeties wired around. Good luck to the TSOs working those airports. If you get treated by your employer the same way your employer treats passengers you are in for a very rough row to hoe trying to get workman's compensation.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 7:41 pm   #4
  
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Not surprised at all. The safety of the low-rent workforce doesn't enter into the equation either.

This brochure has a whole bunch of info on the hazard and it folds up nicely. Hopefully the same low-rent workforce knows how to read.

http://scr.bi/cWT295
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Old Jun 26, 11, 7:54 pm   #5
  
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I actually feel sorry for the TSOs who are at risk on a daily basis. But then again, they're either too ignorant, too stupid, or too scared to question their employer.

And then there are those TSOs who will believe anything the government tells them and are willing to molest and harass pax on a daily basis. Those I could care less about.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 8:08 pm   #6
  
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The body scanners at my airport use radio waves....so not much carcinogenic radiation going on there.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 8:13 pm   #7
  
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Originally Posted by Ciarin View Post
The body scanners at my airport use radio waves....so not much carcinogenic radiation going on there.
So what do they use for screening luggage and carry ons? Those are the real biggies because they must use enough power to see through the luggage. They leak and the cavalier way I've seen TSOs hang around the carry on x-ray machine leads me to believe they are getting a pretty good dose with every shift they work.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 8:14 pm   #8
  
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Originally Posted by AngryMiller View Post
So what do they use for screening luggage and carry ons?
MRI for luggage, x-ray for carry ons.
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Old Jun 26, 11, 9:23 pm   #9
  
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Originally Posted by Ciarin View Post
MRI for luggage, x-ray for carry ons.
You use MRI for luggage that may contain iron or steel? IANADr. or even a radiologist, but I do watch House. And I do know a bit about magnetism as in the "M" in MRI. Are you sure of this?

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Originally Posted by Ciarin View Post
The body scanners at my airport use radio waves....so not much carcinogenic radiation going on there.
Oh, Backscatter is x-ray, not rf. You are losing credibility by the minute. Not every airport is your airport.

Last edited by essxjay; Dec 31, 15 at 2:33 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Jun 26, 11, 9:31 pm   #10
  
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Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
You use MRI for luggage that may contain iron or steel? IANADr. or even a radiologist, but I do watch House. And I do know a bit about magnetism as in the "M" in MRI. Are you sure of this?

My bad, I got into the habit of saying MRI cause that's what it reminds me of. I suppose it's more like a ct scan than an MRI though.

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Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
Oh, Backscatter is x-ray, not rf. You are losing credibility by the minute. Not every airport is your airport.
Yes, backscatter is x-ray. We don't use backscatter.

Not every airport is my airport, which is why I only mentioned the ones at my airport. Did I say every airport uses radio waves? hm....let me check.....scrolling...uh..no I didn't say every airport. Nice strawman.

Last edited by essxjay; Dec 31, 15 at 2:35 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
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Old Jun 27, 11, 3:49 am   #11
  
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???

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Originally Posted by Ciarin View Post
My bad, I got into the habit of saying MRI cause that's what it reminds me of. I suppose it's more like a ct scan than an MRI though.
Where have you had experience with MRI and/or CT? In what way does MRI "remind" you of a baggage scanner?

Curious about your technical perspective, if any. In a recent discussion about backscatter, a 2-tour Iraq combat vet's response to my objection they were put into use without testing was a wink and "Oh, they've been tested—on Iraqis!" He seemed to believe this was both permissible, and sufficient. Don't know him well enough to guess whether he believes it himself.
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Old Jun 27, 11, 4:15 am   #12
  
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It is highly improbable that the cancer clusters are related to backscatter, since it really hasn´t been around long enough yet (give it a few years...). But notice that all other point have long been pointed out around here. It is good to see that this is going mainstream.
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Old Jun 27, 11, 4:37 am   #13
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A Couple of Comments

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Originally Posted by BubbaLoop View Post
It is highly improbable that the cancer clusters are related to backscatter, since it really hasn´t been around long enough yet (give it a few years...). But notice that all other point have long been pointed out around here. It is good to see that this is going mainstream.
1. I agree that it's hard to really analyze the outbreak of cancer among clerks at BOS. Why there and not at other airports? An easy explanation would be that nobody else complained through their union reps? regardless, given the clerk lifestyle we've all observed and, in some cases, photogaphed -- smoking, obesity, etc -- I think it would be hard to determine the number of new cases of cancer and cardiovascular disease beyond those would would be expected among this demographic.

2. In the string of emails (interesting how they apply FOIA exemptions, but we'll save that for another day), I saw where 1100+ clerks HAD been issued dosimeters. I'm surprised the regular posters here have never mentioned this nor have any of them been among the lucky 1100. This had to have been before March 2010.

3. It's also interesting that they responded to the union with the same misleading and false drivel they issued to the public about the Cancer Machines.

4. This is the first I've heard about the toxicity concerns about some of the chemicals they use. Guess I haven't been paying attention.
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Old Jun 27, 11, 7:00 am   #14
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciarin View Post
MRI for luggage, x-ray for carry ons.
Sorry but MRI is NOT used for luggage. Xray is used. The M in MRI is magnetic which means metal such as steel will be attracted to it. The only place magnetic fields are used are in the WTMD.

The machines however, do take 3D images which is not unlike CT and MRI scanners. The luggage scanners are basically low grade industrial CT scanners. However, they also contain a far amount of image processing that is based simply on material density. As such, if put dense material, whether it be steel or peanut butter in your luggage you can guarantee it will be pawed through.
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Old Jun 27, 11, 12:04 pm   #15
  
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"New Documents Prove TSA “Mischaracterized” Safety Aspects Of Full Body Scanners"

Linked by Drudge and it makes interesting reading...

Newly released internal government documents, obtained via the Freedom Of Information Act, reveal that the TSA, and specifically the head of the Department of Homeland Security, “publicly mischaracterized” the findings of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, in stating that NIST had positively confirmed the safety of full body scanners in tests.

http://www.infowars.com/new-document...body-scanners/
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