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EPIC v. DHS: New FOIA'd Documents Raise New Questions About WBI Radiation

EPIC v. DHS: New FOIA'd Documents Raise New Questions About WBI Radiation

Old Aug 12, 2011, 2:13 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by OnTheAsile
Lets OP-OUT...
..
The general populace should be able to make better decisions IF ONLY they had the full data.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 2:54 pm
  #62  
 
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I'm so very sorry that the employees of TSA have had their risk for developing cancer mischaracterized.

I will wait patiently for an apology for having had my risk for being a taro-ist mischaracterized.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 5:29 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by OnTheAsile
IF this is in fact correct, the reason may be TSA fears the public response to seeing the employees wearing the dosimeters, ie;massive Op-OUTS.
Well, we can't have people making reasonable choices based on facts, can we?

I'll admit to being fairly ignorant in what I'm about to say, but I'm at least basing it on some common sense. Couldn't the employees keep the dosimeters in a pocket? Maybe there's an argument to be made about clothing deflecting some of the rays, but actually that would more closely reflect the amount of radiation that reaches the scanner victim's skin.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 6:04 pm
  #64  
 
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TSA Blueshirts are literally betting their lives that there own management is telling them the truth about the MMW and Backscattter Chambers.

Even on here, the Blueshirts will sometimes take management to task over certain things they disagree with. Yet when it comes to their most valuable posession - their health, they gulp down whatever is fed to them.

If these people didn't enjoy groping innocent people so much, I would feel sorry for them.

Last edited by TsaAbuseWatch; Aug 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 6:39 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by TsaAbuseWatch
TSA Blueshirts are literally betting their lives that there own management is telling them the truth about the MMW and Backscattter Chambers.

Even on here, the Blueshirts will sometimes take management to task over certain things they disagree with. Yet when it comes to their most valuable profession - their health, they gulp down whatever is fed to them.

If these people didn't enjoy groping innocent people so much, I would feel sorry for them.
This is why I don't feel one bit sorry for them. They made their choice, let them live with the consequences.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 7:01 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by SFOSpiff
Well, we can't have people making reasonable choices based on facts, can we?

I'll admit to being fairly ignorant in what I'm about to say, but I'm at least basing it on some common sense. Couldn't the employees keep the dosimeters in a pocket? Maybe there's an argument to be made about clothing deflecting some of the rays, but actually that would more closely reflect the amount of radiation that reaches the scanner victim's skin.
I don't know either, but last night on "Covert Affairs" the CIA chick wore one on a necklace type thing under her shirt.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 7:10 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by SFOSpiff
Well, we can't have people making reasonable choices based on facts, can we?

I'll admit to being fairly ignorant in what I'm about to say, but I'm at least basing it on some common sense. Couldn't the employees keep the dosimeters in a pocket? Maybe there's an argument to be made about clothing deflecting some of the rays, but actually that would more closely reflect the amount of radiation that reaches the scanner victim's skin.
I'm sure that there would be no trouble keeping such a device in a pocket, under clothes or whatever. It's not like these employees are screened as they are coming into work, into the sterile area or anything like that.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 9:57 am
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by Combat Medic
It should be noted that there are concerns that the MMW systems are likely to unzip the DNA of an exposed person. So you aren't safe.
I don't know the exact frequency of the MMW machines, but MMW is just K-band EM radiation. It's the exact same frequencies that police radar, automatic door openers, and numerous other common devices use. If MMW wave machines unzip your DNA, I'd suggest avoiding places like Wal-Mart. You're DNA will be unzipped by the much larger, poorly calibrated MMW radiation coming off of the automatic doors on the way in and out.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:17 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by realjd
I don't know the exact frequency of the MMW machines, but MMW is just K-band EM radiation. It's the exact same frequencies that police radar, automatic door openers, and numerous other common devices use. If MMW wave machines unzip your DNA, I'd suggest avoiding places like Wal-Mart. You're DNA will be unzipped by the much larger, poorly calibrated MMW radiation coming off of the automatic doors on the way in and out.
I know people like to make that sort of comparison, but it's not especially valid. There's three characteristics that are relevant to radiation exposure: frequency (position on the electromagnetic spectrum), intensity, and duration. Just because a certain frequency may be "safe" at low strength for a split second doesn't automatically mean it's safe inside the MMW booth.

Look at it this way: if you operate your microwave oven with the door off, you might get a little sick. If you stand in front of a ground-to-satellite microwave transmitter, you'll get fried.

By the way, I am making no specific claim that MMW is dangerous (aside from my post elsewhere that it made me feel dizzy and nauseated) but I am disputing the notion that because similar frequencies are used at places like Wal-Mart, that doesn't mean MMW is safe.

Last edited by SFOSpiff; Aug 13, 2011 at 1:12 pm
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:52 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by realjd
I don't know the exact frequency of the MMW machines, but MMW is just K-band EM radiation. It's the exact same frequencies that police radar, automatic door openers, and numerous other common devices use. If MMW wave machines unzip your DNA, I'd suggest avoiding places like Wal-Mart. You're DNA will be unzipped by the much larger, poorly calibrated MMW radiation coming off of the automatic doors on the way in and out.
Actually, MMW scanners operate on Ka band (26.5 to 40 GHz). Their actual operating frequency is a sweep between 24.5Ghz and 30Ghz. Their output power level is approx 40 MICROWATTS, nearly immeasurable. Your cell phone transmits at approx 200 MILLIWATTS, about 5,000 times more power.

My opinion is that there is no health risk from the MM scanners (privacy and 4th amendment issues, however).

Even is a health risk can be attributed to cell phones, this is 5000X less power and the exposure is approx 2 seconds.

If you are still concerned, better stay away from wireless hot spots, wireless adapters in computers, automatic door openers, and cops operating radar guns and keep hundreds of feet away from operating microwave ovens (yes - they all leak a small amount of RF)- better stay home and hide under your bed!

Worldwide, the scientific consensus is that the MM wave scanners are SAFE - just keep miles away from the BIG BLUE BOXES
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 6:39 pm
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Originally Posted by Wimpie
Actually, MMW scanners operate on Ka band (26.5 to 40 GHz). Their actual operating frequency is a sweep between 24.5Ghz and 30Ghz. Their output power level is approx 40 MICROWATTS, nearly immeasurable. Your cell phone transmits at approx 200 MILLIWATTS, about 5,000 times more power.

My opinion is that there is no health risk from the MM scanners (privacy and 4th amendment issues, however).

Even is a health risk can be attributed to cell phones, this is 5000X less power and the exposure is approx 2 seconds.

If you are still concerned, better stay away from wireless hot spots, wireless adapters in computers, automatic door openers, and cops operating radar guns and keep hundreds of feet away from operating microwave ovens (yes - they all leak a small amount of RF)- better stay home and hide under your bed!

Worldwide, the scientific consensus is that the MM wave scanners are SAFE - just keep miles away from the BIG BLUE BOXES
The MMW band spans both K and Ka band. Do you have a source for it being a Ka band signal? I can't fund my source for it being K band, but I promise I didn't make it up Regardless, Ka band is the most common used for police radar guns, which again are a much higher output than the extremely clean, low power RF coming off of a MMW machine. so if you have health concerns about MMW, don't go near a cop with a radar gun.

As an engineer, I agree that there shouldn't be any health concerns with MMW. I usually go through MMW machines because personally, I'd rather someone see my junk than touch it. But I always, always refuse the backscatter machines.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 9:49 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by iowakatie1981
I don't know either, but last night on "Covert Affairs" the CIA chick wore one on a necklace type thing under her shirt.
Yeah, the TSA goons could do that. We can't. (Not that the badges are sensitive enough to mean anything unless something's seriously wrong with the scanner.)
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 12:22 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by realjd
The MMW band spans both K and Ka band. Do you have a source for it being a Ka band signal? I can't fund my source for it being K band, but I promise I didn't make it up Regardless, Ka band is the most common used for police radar guns, which again are a much higher output than the extremely clean, low power RF coming off of a MMW machine. so if you have health concerns about MMW, don't go near a cop with a radar gun.

As an engineer, I agree that there shouldn't be any health concerns with MMW. I usually go through MMW machines because personally, I'd rather someone see my junk than touch it. But I always, always refuse the backscatter machines.
RadioGirl posted a link to the FCC documents concerning the L3. They got it approved under article 15, but needed a waiver for any interference that may result. (They can only use them indoors).

Link here:http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...l#post16907222
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 1:15 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by Wimpie
RadioGirl posted a link to the FCC documents concerning the L3. They got it approved under article 15, but needed a waiver for any interference that may result. (They can only use them indoors).

Link here:http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...l#post16907222
Thanks, Wimpie; two posts earlier I was thinking "Guess I'd better link to that post."
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Old Aug 14, 2011, 12:25 pm
  #75  
 
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I found these in one of my catalogs today.

I know, the specs are probably all wrong, but I did think of our TSA friends when I saw it.

No radiation guesswork! Advanced duo of direct reading Pen Dosimeters accurately read, at any time, accumulated dose (quantity of gamma and x-ray exposure in roentgen units).

Sealed Dosimeter Pens are 4 3/8"l., designed to satisfy military specs. Sturdy metal pocket clip. Charging Station has an adjustment dial on a 4 x 4 x 1 7/8" metal case.

Condition: brand new, never issued. Be safe, order ONLINE now!
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