Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Nov 17, 2010, 8:29 pm
#721
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Colorado
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,745
Here is the link to the original post on OBOW where you can find many news bulletins and entries on the matter. Obow is really on it along with flyertalk.
http://www.1bag1world.com/obow-light...m/post/1306237
Recently I took a plane starting in Richmond, VA. Nice airport and all, except they have body scanners.
I refused the scanner. Impolite and unnerved look from female TSA employee who told me "You have to go through there." I said "No, I opt out" with a smile (might have been an arrogant grin).
She then called a male agent for a "male pat down screening". The male agent was very correct and professional. What was interesting was that he was charged with taking all my belongings of the conveyor belt. But since I had about five spots on the belt (case with laptop, shoes, case with toiletries, case with hat and coat, carry-on bag, computer bag) the wait created a back log in which they practically couldn't use the luggage x-ray machine until he had taken my belongings off.
He then explained the entire process and asked if I wanted a private screening. Thanks, no lap dances for me, please. I want everybody to see what is happening. He pats me down pretty rigourously. He did touch my posterior which I didn't mind. On the front he went over my zip with the back of his hands. I can deal with that. Though I can see how for others that might already be too intrusive. He didn't "touch my junk", as the recent traveler put it. He then did an explosives swap on the new gloves he had put on. Well, they came out of a box but they could simply stuff the old gloves back in the box. Nobody would know.
The entire thing took easily 7-8 minutes in which one man was fully busy with me. The x-ray was blocked for about 2-3 minutes. It also created a lot of attention as other travelers were curious to see what was going on.
By the way, the explanation of what the scanner is doing and the images it is producing was shown only directly next to the scanner. So there was no advance warning for the citizen to consider and to make up his/her mind. Plus the agent directed people authoritatively to the scanner. The scanner thing also took much longer anyway than the WTMD.
The lesson I learn from this is that if people refuse the scanner, which I think they should, it really messes up their logistics and eats up their man power. If only two out of ten people opt out, I estimate that it doubles the average screening time for these ten people. Huge queues will result unless they add more personnel. For each $150k scanner they will need another $60-100k in yearly salary for personnel to cope with the added work load of people who opt out. And fellow travelers will get so annoyed they'll hopefully voice their dismay against these machines.
For me the difference was about plus 7 minutes. So 10 minutes instead of 3 or four. Totally worth it. Much better use of time than sitting at the gate.
I won't travel for some time, but if I did I'd opt out every time. I can only hope many conscious fellow travelers voice their objection to the scanners and act accordingly by opting out, especially in the upcoming holiday period. Should be fun.
So opt out and make sure you have a ton of stuff on the x-ray belt and you get a public pat down.
Till
http://www.1bag1world.com/obow-light...m/post/1306237
Recently I took a plane starting in Richmond, VA. Nice airport and all, except they have body scanners.
I refused the scanner. Impolite and unnerved look from female TSA employee who told me "You have to go through there." I said "No, I opt out" with a smile (might have been an arrogant grin).
She then called a male agent for a "male pat down screening". The male agent was very correct and professional. What was interesting was that he was charged with taking all my belongings of the conveyor belt. But since I had about five spots on the belt (case with laptop, shoes, case with toiletries, case with hat and coat, carry-on bag, computer bag) the wait created a back log in which they practically couldn't use the luggage x-ray machine until he had taken my belongings off.
He then explained the entire process and asked if I wanted a private screening. Thanks, no lap dances for me, please. I want everybody to see what is happening. He pats me down pretty rigourously. He did touch my posterior which I didn't mind. On the front he went over my zip with the back of his hands. I can deal with that. Though I can see how for others that might already be too intrusive. He didn't "touch my junk", as the recent traveler put it. He then did an explosives swap on the new gloves he had put on. Well, they came out of a box but they could simply stuff the old gloves back in the box. Nobody would know.
The entire thing took easily 7-8 minutes in which one man was fully busy with me. The x-ray was blocked for about 2-3 minutes. It also created a lot of attention as other travelers were curious to see what was going on.
By the way, the explanation of what the scanner is doing and the images it is producing was shown only directly next to the scanner. So there was no advance warning for the citizen to consider and to make up his/her mind. Plus the agent directed people authoritatively to the scanner. The scanner thing also took much longer anyway than the WTMD.
The lesson I learn from this is that if people refuse the scanner, which I think they should, it really messes up their logistics and eats up their man power. If only two out of ten people opt out, I estimate that it doubles the average screening time for these ten people. Huge queues will result unless they add more personnel. For each $150k scanner they will need another $60-100k in yearly salary for personnel to cope with the added work load of people who opt out. And fellow travelers will get so annoyed they'll hopefully voice their dismay against these machines.
For me the difference was about plus 7 minutes. So 10 minutes instead of 3 or four. Totally worth it. Much better use of time than sitting at the gate.
I won't travel for some time, but if I did I'd opt out every time. I can only hope many conscious fellow travelers voice their objection to the scanners and act accordingly by opting out, especially in the upcoming holiday period. Should be fun.
So opt out and make sure you have a ton of stuff on the x-ray belt and you get a public pat down.
Till
TSA is already thought of as a workfare program. Please dont encourage an out of control bloated federal agency to become more of the same shitake.
Nov 17, 2010, 8:29 pm
#722
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,438
Nov 17, 2010, 8:32 pm
#723
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,603
On occasion, I'll bring two laptops with me, plus my rollerboard.
Bin 1) Laptop 1
Bin 2) Laptop 2
Bin 3) Shoes, Belt, Kippie Bag
Bin 4) Coat
Rollerboard
Laptop bag
Bin 1) Laptop 1
Bin 2) Laptop 2
Bin 3) Shoes, Belt, Kippie Bag
Bin 4) Coat
Rollerboard
Laptop bag
Nov 18, 2010, 11:35 am
#725
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: EWR
Programs: Cattle Class
Posts: 556
10/17 SFO Terminal1
Opted out.
Got a patdown.
Every step was explained and no squeezing of the private parts was involved.
The worst part was that had to pull out my underwear from between my butt cheeks
everything took ~5 mins.
TSO asked me "May I ask why are you opting out?" and received an answer "You may not" so was marked as "No reason provided".
Got a patdown.
Every step was explained and no squeezing of the private parts was involved.
The worst part was that had to pull out my underwear from between my butt cheeks
everything took ~5 mins.
TSO asked me "May I ask why are you opting out?" and received an answer "You may not" so was marked as "No reason provided".
Nov 18, 2010, 5:54 pm
#726
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5
Local news segment
Here's a segment from our local San Francisco news station regarding TSA and pat downs. Those of you in the Bay Area might find it more relevant. I hope that its not just lip service and that these types of measures are being considered in other parts of the country as well.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/70207.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...ves/70207.html
Nov 18, 2010, 6:01 pm
#727
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
cross-reference related post
relevant portion of an experience posted a few minutes ago ("TSA in my pants, literally"):
So, I'm a frequent (weekly) flier. There is almost nothing I've had to endure these last several years that had made me mad, embarassed, feel violated. Until tonight. I'm still in CVG and 30 minutes ago, the screener asked me during the "enhanced" patdown to lift my top (I'm female) so she could inspect my waistband. Okay, this usually gets done by hand, but I complied. Then, without warning, she yanked my pants forward and peered down the front of my pants. Truly.
Nov 18, 2010, 6:05 pm
#728
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
From the video:
What the eff are the people saying this nonsense going to do when something does get smuggled through and something does happen?
Because mark my words, the more barriers put up, the harder people with evil intent are going to try to get something through. We all know cargo is the glaring hole in this entire equation. However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Al Qaeda is finding a way to get WEI through the scanners. And then what? You got your chest rubbed by a stranger in a moment of "uncomfortableness" and you still got blowed up. Jesus Christ on a bike delivering a pizza!
I'd much rather go through a little uncomfortableness and know that I'm safe.
What the eff are the people saying this nonsense going to do when something does get smuggled through and something does happen?
Because mark my words, the more barriers put up, the harder people with evil intent are going to try to get something through. We all know cargo is the glaring hole in this entire equation. However, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Al Qaeda is finding a way to get WEI through the scanners. And then what? You got your chest rubbed by a stranger in a moment of "uncomfortableness" and you still got blowed up. Jesus Christ on a bike delivering a pizza!
Nov 18, 2010, 6:22 pm
#730
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Opt-Our of MMW @ BWI Concourse D 18 November
Unpleasant but reasonably professional.
Only a trickle of passengers at the top of Concourse D today at 620am. They had about four lanes going, each featuring both WTMD and MMW. Subjects were being directed into one or the other at random. I went for the rightmost lane and put all my stuff on the conveyor or in bins. "Don't forget to take off your belt," snapped a blueshirt, although I haven't been asked to do that in my last 50 screenings or so.
I was directed into the MMW.
"I'm opting out of using this device," I said.
They then made me put my wallet through the X-ray belt. ("I believe I'm not required to be separated from my wallet at any time." "No, sir.") I was made to step through the MMW ("Don't worry, we won't scan you" -- not sure I believe that) and into a side area. At my request my wallet was brought to me in a TSA plastic soup bowl and placed in my field of view. My laptop, briefcase and suiter remained on the conveyor belt about fifteen feet away, my view of them blocked by a big pillar. Nothing I could do about that.
An older, more senior male TSO performed the patdown according to procedure. He ran the backs of his hands up both legs until they pressed against my testicles, and palpated my buttocks and rectal area. He penetrated the waistband of my pants two to three inches, feeling around, and brushed his hand firmly across my pubic zone, encountering my penis. He narrated the process throughout. It took about three minutes. I was offered a private venue but declined.
Overall: pointless and embarrassing for both the screener and me; I was separated from my belongings in violation of procedure; no idea what kinds of contraband the new, invasive patdown could possibly discover.
Only a trickle of passengers at the top of Concourse D today at 620am. They had about four lanes going, each featuring both WTMD and MMW. Subjects were being directed into one or the other at random. I went for the rightmost lane and put all my stuff on the conveyor or in bins. "Don't forget to take off your belt," snapped a blueshirt, although I haven't been asked to do that in my last 50 screenings or so.
I was directed into the MMW.
"I'm opting out of using this device," I said.
They then made me put my wallet through the X-ray belt. ("I believe I'm not required to be separated from my wallet at any time." "No, sir.") I was made to step through the MMW ("Don't worry, we won't scan you" -- not sure I believe that) and into a side area. At my request my wallet was brought to me in a TSA plastic soup bowl and placed in my field of view. My laptop, briefcase and suiter remained on the conveyor belt about fifteen feet away, my view of them blocked by a big pillar. Nothing I could do about that.
An older, more senior male TSO performed the patdown according to procedure. He ran the backs of his hands up both legs until they pressed against my testicles, and palpated my buttocks and rectal area. He penetrated the waistband of my pants two to three inches, feeling around, and brushed his hand firmly across my pubic zone, encountering my penis. He narrated the process throughout. It took about three minutes. I was offered a private venue but declined.
Overall: pointless and embarrassing for both the screener and me; I was separated from my belongings in violation of procedure; no idea what kinds of contraband the new, invasive patdown could possibly discover.
Nov 18, 2010, 6:58 pm
#731
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
They then made me put my wallet through the X-ray belt. ("I believe I'm not required to be separated from my wallet at any time." "No, sir.") I was made to step through the MMW ("Don't worry, we won't scan you" -- not sure I believe that) and into a side area. At my request my wallet was brought to me in a TSA plastic soup bowl and placed in my field of view. My laptop, briefcase and suiter remained on the conveyor belt about fifteen feet away, my view of them blocked by a big pillar. Nothing I could do about that.
My wallet is sealed in my backpack. Yes, sealed. I put my wallet, BP, ID phone, watch in the pockets of my jacket, fold my jacket, put it in the large center section of my backpack and cable tie the section.
Nov 20, 2010, 11:23 pm
#732
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: Whatever's Cheapest, Accruing Miles, Redeeming for Premium Cabins, Not Chasing Status Unnecessarily
Posts: 2,264
Does anyone know which companies produce the nudeoscopes and the WTMD's?
Just curious who has benefitted and who has money to lose if the public fight the nudeoscopes.
After reading about the prof from Hopkins and thinking about the radiation, I don't want to be irradiated.
But, I think it's important to point out that while it may be true that TSA has underestimated the exposure at the skin level because the radiation is very superficial/low energy and mainly hits the skin, and TSA has generalized and averaged the dose over the total body mass...
I would find it hard to believe that even on the basis of dose per gram of skin that it would compare with the energy of a chest xray for example.
I mean if a chest xray is overall higher dose total, it should also be a higher dose at the skin level.
So it's probably much safer than a chest xray, but radiation is radiation and the improbable event of DNA mutations go up with the dose, meaning there must be some risk with even a small amount of radiation which can only be amplified by frequent flying.
NOT MEDICAL ADVICE
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
FOR entertainment value only.
Just curious who has benefitted and who has money to lose if the public fight the nudeoscopes.
After reading about the prof from Hopkins and thinking about the radiation, I don't want to be irradiated.
But, I think it's important to point out that while it may be true that TSA has underestimated the exposure at the skin level because the radiation is very superficial/low energy and mainly hits the skin, and TSA has generalized and averaged the dose over the total body mass...
I would find it hard to believe that even on the basis of dose per gram of skin that it would compare with the energy of a chest xray for example.
I mean if a chest xray is overall higher dose total, it should also be a higher dose at the skin level.
So it's probably much safer than a chest xray, but radiation is radiation and the improbable event of DNA mutations go up with the dose, meaning there must be some risk with even a small amount of radiation which can only be amplified by frequent flying.
NOT MEDICAL ADVICE
NOT LEGAL ADVICE
FOR entertainment value only.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 25, 2010 at 10:32 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
Nov 20, 2010, 11:40 pm
#733
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Riverside County, CA
Posts: 277
I don't know about the WTMD, but I believe the MMW scanners are made by L-3 and the backscatters are made by Rapiscan.
Nov 20, 2010, 11:47 pm
#734
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: DL Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 207
Has anyone tried to avoid the pat-down when opting out of the NoS by collecting their stuff and saying, "I've decided not to fly right now" and then try to enter at another security checkpoint to try their luck again? i'M THINKIING you would need to print out several copies of your bording pass since they stamp it at the ID checkpoint.
DH has left the security area many times with his bags when he's forgotten his jacknife in his pocket and he's set off the alarm or they catch it in his carryon.... so people CAN leave the area once they've started to security process.
PBq
DH has left the security area many times with his bags when he's forgotten his jacknife in his pocket and he's set off the alarm or they catch it in his carryon.... so people CAN leave the area once they've started to security process.
PBq
Nov 21, 2010, 2:31 pm
#735
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Empire State of South
Programs: United Mileage Plus, Priority Club, Delta Skymiles
Posts: 15
Intimidated into going through Nude-O-Scope, and then got "enhanced" anyway
My mother-in-law was traveling to Florida today, flying out of ORD.
She asked to opt-out (as my husband and I, both attorneys, instructed her to do), but was told, if she did, she would be subject to a full body search that would "take one hour". (Is this the new line being readied for "Opt Out Day"?)
She felt intimidated into going into the AIT, which she did.
She has a hip replacement, which showed up on the AIT, and ended up getting a full pat down anyway. After complaining about it, she was told by the TSO that "we'll have to scan your carry-on bags again". When they did so, they found a small decorative wooden kitchen mallet bought in eastern Europe, which was confiscated from her.
She believes this treatment was retaliation for her complaint about the pat down.
My mother-in-law is 62 years old and walks with a limp. She came to this country in 1969 to escape totalitarian rule in Communist Czechoslovakia, and said she had the same tactics used on her today at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Illinois, she experienced in Czechoslovakia as a girl and young woman.
What the hell is happening in this country? Shameful and totally unacceptable.
She asked to opt-out (as my husband and I, both attorneys, instructed her to do), but was told, if she did, she would be subject to a full body search that would "take one hour". (Is this the new line being readied for "Opt Out Day"?)
She felt intimidated into going into the AIT, which she did.
She has a hip replacement, which showed up on the AIT, and ended up getting a full pat down anyway. After complaining about it, she was told by the TSO that "we'll have to scan your carry-on bags again". When they did so, they found a small decorative wooden kitchen mallet bought in eastern Europe, which was confiscated from her.
She believes this treatment was retaliation for her complaint about the pat down.
My mother-in-law is 62 years old and walks with a limp. She came to this country in 1969 to escape totalitarian rule in Communist Czechoslovakia, and said she had the same tactics used on her today at O'Hare Airport in Chicago, Illinois, she experienced in Czechoslovakia as a girl and young woman.
What the hell is happening in this country? Shameful and totally unacceptable.
Last edited by magic111; Dec 9, 2011 at 9:37 am Reason: removed forum violation