Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Oct 24, 2010, 10:54 pm
#451
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I still want to know what happened to the declaration from TSA that the NoS would not be used as primary. Can any of our clerks chime in, please?
Oct 25, 2010, 2:35 am
#453
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RDU
Programs: Status Free
Posts: 214
Thank you for the RDU report. I will be flying out of there on business in a couple of weeks and want to know what to expect.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
I expect to see a mirror image of it in the new section when that opens in Jan. I presume Continental will be moving, as will USAir, so no escape
Oct 25, 2010, 9:12 am
#454
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Thank you for the RDU report. I will be flying out of there on business in a couple of weeks and want to know what to expect.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
Fortunately, the rest of my flights over the next 8 weeks are out of Terminal 1 at RDU (Contintental FTL) and I won't have to worry about NoS in that terminal.
When I would fly out of RDU, I would be able to bypass the NoS by using the line for F pax. Sadly, it looks like that is no longer a possibility
Oct 26, 2010, 12:31 pm
#455
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,967
ORD T1 checkpoint - the one to the far left between T2 and T1
AIT (I believe it is the backscatter with the two boxes in use)
People ahead of me in line - 10
The first 3 were sent through AIT, then what appeared to be a supervisor called out 'rotation!' and the next person was sent through WTMD. The Rapiscan then apparently had a failure, and all activity came to a standstill for several minutes. Finally the other scanner lane was opened, and passengers advised to move their luggage to the other scanner.
The next set of passengers were all sent through AIT, except for a woman with a tiny dog who actually wanted to use the AIT with the dog and had to be redirected to WTMD.
My turn was next and I was prepared to be sent through the AIT, and to refuse because I have a valid medical reason for doing so. Before I could say anything, the 'supervisor' directed me through the WTMD.
I do not know why I was sent through the WTMD rather than the AIT; the next several behind me were also sent through AIT. It may be that the 'supervisor' was actually perceptive and noticed that I would not be able to use the AIT, although I had removed any visible devices before security. It may be that they didn't have female staff to do an assist. It may just have been random.
My overall impression was that the screeners were in contrast to my usual European airports unprofessional. A few were obviously embarassed when the scanner came to a halt, and to their credit tried to lighten up the mood by joking, but the jokes were not necessarily appropriate in that setting (at least one is used here on TS&S) Signage was in place on the machine, below my eye level, but same as the sample which ORDofcr posted. I saw no other opt outs, and the supervisor did continue to explain the AIT in a rather vague fashion, but nobody asked questions etc.
Considering the very small number of people ahead of me, it took at least 2-3 times as long to clear security as it does elsewhere with that amount of people.
AIT (I believe it is the backscatter with the two boxes in use)
People ahead of me in line - 10
The first 3 were sent through AIT, then what appeared to be a supervisor called out 'rotation!' and the next person was sent through WTMD. The Rapiscan then apparently had a failure, and all activity came to a standstill for several minutes. Finally the other scanner lane was opened, and passengers advised to move their luggage to the other scanner.
The next set of passengers were all sent through AIT, except for a woman with a tiny dog who actually wanted to use the AIT with the dog and had to be redirected to WTMD.
My turn was next and I was prepared to be sent through the AIT, and to refuse because I have a valid medical reason for doing so. Before I could say anything, the 'supervisor' directed me through the WTMD.
I do not know why I was sent through the WTMD rather than the AIT; the next several behind me were also sent through AIT. It may be that the 'supervisor' was actually perceptive and noticed that I would not be able to use the AIT, although I had removed any visible devices before security. It may be that they didn't have female staff to do an assist. It may just have been random.
My overall impression was that the screeners were in contrast to my usual European airports unprofessional. A few were obviously embarassed when the scanner came to a halt, and to their credit tried to lighten up the mood by joking, but the jokes were not necessarily appropriate in that setting (at least one is used here on TS&S) Signage was in place on the machine, below my eye level, but same as the sample which ORDofcr posted. I saw no other opt outs, and the supervisor did continue to explain the AIT in a rather vague fashion, but nobody asked questions etc.
Considering the very small number of people ahead of me, it took at least 2-3 times as long to clear security as it does elsewhere with that amount of people.
Oct 26, 2010, 2:07 pm
#457
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
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Oct 26, 2010, 6:15 pm
#459
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: the ATL
Programs: SM-GM ~ PC-PM ~ HGP-PM ~ SPG-GM
Posts: 126
9/9/10 - RIC: Only the NoS being used to screen all pax at check point. First encounter with a NoS, didn't really know much about it. Knew something was different when was told to take off my belt upon arriving at belt and getting bins. Told Belt Dragon that my belt wouldn't set off the detector as I had been through many times and never took it off. She said "NOT today we using a whoooole body scanna, everything off and out" Thought you could opt out, but wasn't sure, again first encounter, went through, as you walked out of the mircrowave oven, you came directly into a tensel barrier que where everyone was lined up and one by one approved to go by the line dragon when she got the word over her radio. More people than not required additional pat down....including me as I had put my passport/boarding pass in back pocket, Male TSO simply came up behind me and grabbed my back pocket without warnning and pulled out my passport/boarding pass, thumbed thorugh passport and told me i could go, but in the future everything OUT.
10/3/10 - RIC: Determined to opt out this time, arrived for my return trip to find the NoS out of commission, wondered to self, if that thing was so important why wouldn't all flights stop until it was repaired? Guess, its not really that important after all..
10/3/10 - RIC: Determined to opt out this time, arrived for my return trip to find the NoS out of commission, wondered to self, if that thing was so important why wouldn't all flights stop until it was repaired? Guess, its not really that important after all..
Oct 26, 2010, 9:07 pm
#461
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
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Posts: 21,603
Oct 26, 2010, 9:31 pm
#462
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
That is changing most departments are going to requiring a certain number of college hours or a college degree. The same is happening in the Fire/EMS services.
It would be nice if more governmental agencies upped there minimum requirements, especially TSA it would go a long way to fixing alot (that or its wishful thinking)
Last edited by Scubatooth; Oct 26, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Oct 26, 2010, 9:37 pm
#463
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: TPA,DTW
Posts: 254
My first, front-hand, opt out frisking
TPA E-airside about 4pm today...the whole airport seemed very empty today at this time. When I got off the tram there were only about 10 people in the line in front of me, they had one lane open, one MMW, (the big circular glass machine, I think that's the MMW) and one WTMD. They were directing roughly every 3rd person into the nude-0-scope. The others were directed through standard WTMD. If all they had used was the body scanner I can forsee the line backing up fast.
So anyways my turn comes and I'm selected for NOS. I immediatly and loudly say so those around me can hear, "I opt out". The machine feeder TSO rolls his eyes and calls for a male opt out. The lady behind me in line asked me you can do that, (she looked like a frequent flier) and I told her yes. She too then opted out and while we were waiting for our gropes I explained the process to her and why I opt out, both privacy reasons and medical. She told me she plans to opt out from now on.
So anyways I wait about 3 minutes and am escorted to the other side for my pat down. Groper says he is going to run the back of his hands on my buttocks and the front of his hands on my groin area, he also DOES NOT ask me if I have any sensitive areas. I repeat back to him in a loud and firm voice just so I understand, "I want to be clear, you're going to run the back of your hands on my buttocks, and the front of your hands on my genitals is that correct?" I was right in the middle of the checkpoint where everyone was collecting their things and you could have heard a pin drop for a couple seconds. I saw mouths drop when I said that. He asked if I wanted a private screening after my answer and I said no, I told him basically I'm more than willing to be a guinea pig and show other passengers, both frequent and infrequent what this disgusting organization is rolling out this week.
He begins his grope, does my bare arms and upper body including my balding scalp. Makes his way to my stomach where I have a number of scars from past surgeries and he grabs at my stomach (have a little pooch have to admit) I let him know that hurt, raised my shirt and showed him the scars and reminded him how he forgot to ask me if I had any sensitive areas. He at this point realizes I'm not a sheep and snorts back saying I have scars too. I said to him then, "It's great you have scars, but I'm not touching yours".
He then moves to my buttocks, and mind you a number of people were watching and seemed almost intrigued, or perhaps frightened, I can say he covered every inch of my behind and even seemed to focus on running his hand in/near my crack, I know this is nasty but hey he did it. He then moved to my front side and in approximatly three strokes with the front of his hand I had the full frontal feel up. While he did this I couldn't help myself, I let him know how good it felt and I hoped he was enjoying it as much as I was, some people heard me and chuckled, the lady walking next to me asked how much I had to pay for the massage as she said it was the most thorough she had seen. FYI, one of the worst things he did if you can say worse than what I've already noted, he stuck his fingers within my waistband and under the waistband of my boxers, I mean this just felt nasty.
So after the fun parts were over he moved onto my thighs and inbetween my legs, I can only imagine how they are going to handle ladies in skirts, that time of the month etc.
After that he decided since I didn't play nice he was going to do my upper body again, back to my still BARE arms for a second feel, neck, back, pretty much everything he covered at the beginning of the grope.
Couple things to note, I was in BOS and LAS during the test periods, I opted out in BOS and never got any kind of grope like this. Secondly if this is the new opt-out, random grope it is by far the worst thing TSA could have done PR wise. Everyone that saw what they did to me looked disgusted, frequent and infrequent travelers. The hands in/down the waistband thing is just plain, I don't even know how to say wierd and disgusting. Finally, I have not been the victim of sexual abuse or any sex crime, I can forsee almost ANYONE who has been a victim of these types of crimes may break down on the spot. I also forsee parents of children including myself that when a TSO trys to touch "private parts" or as my son picked up, "Don't touch my ......" this will not go well either. I will call LEO if they want to try and touch my sons privates or stick fingers in his pants. Course he would also yell, "Daddy he touched my ......!!" very loudly too.
I know this is long but after today I can plainly see this is meant as a punishment to opting out of the scanner. I cannot see how this type of frisking remains within the bounds of an administrative search. This needs to be challenged in a court of law, and I suspect it won't take long before somebody punches out a TSO because they break down due to previous sexual abuse, or they start touching their kids privates. So it may end up in court sooner than we think.
Last but not least when he finished I asked for a comment card. He replied, "We don't give those out". I stated in a firm tone, yes you do, I also have the 800 number on my phone but want a comment card. I let him know I'm going to collect my things off the belt, (which was in view by the way during the frisk) and when I came back I expected either a comment card or a supervisor. He quickly radioed for a sup. I get my things and the three striper comes to him and says he wants a comment card, sup says follow him and goes to the big desk and gives me a sheet of a paper which just has their phone number to call. I told him thanks but the guy that called you lied to me and said you didn't have these and don't give them out. He apologized and said he would talk to him. So my next stop is to file a complaint on a number of grounds. The perverted search, the screener himself for not asking if I had sensitive areas, and finally for lying to me about not providing a feedback form.
So anyways my turn comes and I'm selected for NOS. I immediatly and loudly say so those around me can hear, "I opt out". The machine feeder TSO rolls his eyes and calls for a male opt out. The lady behind me in line asked me you can do that, (she looked like a frequent flier) and I told her yes. She too then opted out and while we were waiting for our gropes I explained the process to her and why I opt out, both privacy reasons and medical. She told me she plans to opt out from now on.
So anyways I wait about 3 minutes and am escorted to the other side for my pat down. Groper says he is going to run the back of his hands on my buttocks and the front of his hands on my groin area, he also DOES NOT ask me if I have any sensitive areas. I repeat back to him in a loud and firm voice just so I understand, "I want to be clear, you're going to run the back of your hands on my buttocks, and the front of your hands on my genitals is that correct?" I was right in the middle of the checkpoint where everyone was collecting their things and you could have heard a pin drop for a couple seconds. I saw mouths drop when I said that. He asked if I wanted a private screening after my answer and I said no, I told him basically I'm more than willing to be a guinea pig and show other passengers, both frequent and infrequent what this disgusting organization is rolling out this week.
He begins his grope, does my bare arms and upper body including my balding scalp. Makes his way to my stomach where I have a number of scars from past surgeries and he grabs at my stomach (have a little pooch have to admit) I let him know that hurt, raised my shirt and showed him the scars and reminded him how he forgot to ask me if I had any sensitive areas. He at this point realizes I'm not a sheep and snorts back saying I have scars too. I said to him then, "It's great you have scars, but I'm not touching yours".
He then moves to my buttocks, and mind you a number of people were watching and seemed almost intrigued, or perhaps frightened, I can say he covered every inch of my behind and even seemed to focus on running his hand in/near my crack, I know this is nasty but hey he did it. He then moved to my front side and in approximatly three strokes with the front of his hand I had the full frontal feel up. While he did this I couldn't help myself, I let him know how good it felt and I hoped he was enjoying it as much as I was, some people heard me and chuckled, the lady walking next to me asked how much I had to pay for the massage as she said it was the most thorough she had seen. FYI, one of the worst things he did if you can say worse than what I've already noted, he stuck his fingers within my waistband and under the waistband of my boxers, I mean this just felt nasty.
So after the fun parts were over he moved onto my thighs and inbetween my legs, I can only imagine how they are going to handle ladies in skirts, that time of the month etc.
After that he decided since I didn't play nice he was going to do my upper body again, back to my still BARE arms for a second feel, neck, back, pretty much everything he covered at the beginning of the grope.
Couple things to note, I was in BOS and LAS during the test periods, I opted out in BOS and never got any kind of grope like this. Secondly if this is the new opt-out, random grope it is by far the worst thing TSA could have done PR wise. Everyone that saw what they did to me looked disgusted, frequent and infrequent travelers. The hands in/down the waistband thing is just plain, I don't even know how to say wierd and disgusting. Finally, I have not been the victim of sexual abuse or any sex crime, I can forsee almost ANYONE who has been a victim of these types of crimes may break down on the spot. I also forsee parents of children including myself that when a TSO trys to touch "private parts" or as my son picked up, "Don't touch my ......" this will not go well either. I will call LEO if they want to try and touch my sons privates or stick fingers in his pants. Course he would also yell, "Daddy he touched my ......!!" very loudly too.
I know this is long but after today I can plainly see this is meant as a punishment to opting out of the scanner. I cannot see how this type of frisking remains within the bounds of an administrative search. This needs to be challenged in a court of law, and I suspect it won't take long before somebody punches out a TSO because they break down due to previous sexual abuse, or they start touching their kids privates. So it may end up in court sooner than we think.
Last but not least when he finished I asked for a comment card. He replied, "We don't give those out". I stated in a firm tone, yes you do, I also have the 800 number on my phone but want a comment card. I let him know I'm going to collect my things off the belt, (which was in view by the way during the frisk) and when I came back I expected either a comment card or a supervisor. He quickly radioed for a sup. I get my things and the three striper comes to him and says he wants a comment card, sup says follow him and goes to the big desk and gives me a sheet of a paper which just has their phone number to call. I told him thanks but the guy that called you lied to me and said you didn't have these and don't give them out. He apologized and said he would talk to him. So my next stop is to file a complaint on a number of grounds. The perverted search, the screener himself for not asking if I had sensitive areas, and finally for lying to me about not providing a feedback form.
Oct 26, 2010, 9:41 pm
#464
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southeastern WI
Programs: UA Gold, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 590
Just how much detail can these things really see? I guess I haven't really seen (even google doesn't come up with clear representations) of what detail these guys can see with the backscatter...
Oct 26, 2010, 9:49 pm
#465
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,535
enough details to see your genitals in enough detail to see if one testicle hangs lower then the other as well if your circumcised or not. These are not "family friendly" or safe for the cover of readers digest.