Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Nov 5, 2010, 9:46 am
#541
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: DTW
Programs: DL DM/1MM, Marriott Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 199
CMH > JFK yesterday, approximately 5pm.
There were two lines at terminal C (usually, there's just one) and I went to the shorter line. After I was in line, I realized that this line funneled directly into the NoS. I was excited that I finally got to use some of my demeaning lines from articles I've been reading all week. I get to the front, tell the TSO I'm opting out, he spoke "I have a male opt out" into this top-secret communication device, and he pointed me through a gate (directly around the metal detector, btw).
On the other side, a TSO met me, was very specific about not touching any of my belongings, and asked me to point them out so he could retrieve them. He grabbed my stuff off the belt and took it over to the secondary screening area. At all times, my belongings were visible.
He walked me over to an area and started reciting the SOP. "Since we were unable to clear you using..."
I interrupted. "I opted out."
"Oh, ok."
He continued, very professionally, to explain what was about to happen.
"When I get to the sensitive areas, I will clear them with the back of my hand. Do you have any sore parts of your body or medical devices?" I answered no, and he began.
First, he "cleared my collar." Next, he slid his hands down both sides of my arm. He repeated the task on the other arm. He then did my back, and before clearing my bum, explained again:
"Now I'm going to use the backside of my hands on your sensitive area. Do you want to do this in a private room?"
"Are you inviting me into a private room?" I asked, jokingly. He chuckled, quickly regained composure, and continued the screening.
He then cleared my legs by grabbing both sides of them, at my crotch line, and working his way down. He repeated the task on the other leg. He then cleared my front by sliding his hands down my chest and sides. Before he conquered my crotchal area, he once again asked if I wanted to be screened in private.
"You always save the best stuff for last", I quipped.
He very quickly slid the backside of his hands down my crotchal area. After that, he said that he needed to run his hands along the inside of my pants. He pulled my belt loop, and very quickly tugged outwards on the inside of my jeans, starting on my backside. The tugging motion outward wasn't unpleasant, and was done very quickly.
The new pat-down procedure didn't feel like a molestation or a grope. I wasn't berated, treated improperly, or separated from my belongings. I feel like this was probably as close to SOP as possible and conducted very professionally.
I know not all experiences are like this, and the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, but I will continue to opt-out of the NoS and hope to get professional TSO that do their job properly... with courtesy and respect.
There were two lines at terminal C (usually, there's just one) and I went to the shorter line. After I was in line, I realized that this line funneled directly into the NoS. I was excited that I finally got to use some of my demeaning lines from articles I've been reading all week. I get to the front, tell the TSO I'm opting out, he spoke "I have a male opt out" into this top-secret communication device, and he pointed me through a gate (directly around the metal detector, btw).
On the other side, a TSO met me, was very specific about not touching any of my belongings, and asked me to point them out so he could retrieve them. He grabbed my stuff off the belt and took it over to the secondary screening area. At all times, my belongings were visible.
He walked me over to an area and started reciting the SOP. "Since we were unable to clear you using..."
I interrupted. "I opted out."
"Oh, ok."
He continued, very professionally, to explain what was about to happen.
"When I get to the sensitive areas, I will clear them with the back of my hand. Do you have any sore parts of your body or medical devices?" I answered no, and he began.
First, he "cleared my collar." Next, he slid his hands down both sides of my arm. He repeated the task on the other arm. He then did my back, and before clearing my bum, explained again:
"Now I'm going to use the backside of my hands on your sensitive area. Do you want to do this in a private room?"
"Are you inviting me into a private room?" I asked, jokingly. He chuckled, quickly regained composure, and continued the screening.
He then cleared my legs by grabbing both sides of them, at my crotch line, and working his way down. He repeated the task on the other leg. He then cleared my front by sliding his hands down my chest and sides. Before he conquered my crotchal area, he once again asked if I wanted to be screened in private.
"You always save the best stuff for last", I quipped.
He very quickly slid the backside of his hands down my crotchal area. After that, he said that he needed to run his hands along the inside of my pants. He pulled my belt loop, and very quickly tugged outwards on the inside of my jeans, starting on my backside. The tugging motion outward wasn't unpleasant, and was done very quickly.
The new pat-down procedure didn't feel like a molestation or a grope. I wasn't berated, treated improperly, or separated from my belongings. I feel like this was probably as close to SOP as possible and conducted very professionally.
I know not all experiences are like this, and the whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, but I will continue to opt-out of the NoS and hope to get professional TSO that do their job properly... with courtesy and respect.
Nov 5, 2010, 12:45 pm
#542
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SJC and ONT
Programs: WN A-List/CP, HHonors Diamond, CX J with AA miles, US Gold/*G
Posts: 2,082
My last opt-out/pat down at SJC was nothing remarkable...
Was the pat down intrusive? Yes.
TSA guy courteous? Yes.
Will I opt-out again? Always.
But here's the punchline:
During my frisking, I overheard a couple of ahem, kasual travelers, remark as they smugly walked by: "Serves him right for cutting in line."
Apparently, these yahoos don't understand the concept of elite lanes....and not just appreciate the efforts to keep them safe in the air but also for the instant justice administered to one of them fancy pants who's too good to stand in line with them.
Was the pat down intrusive? Yes.
TSA guy courteous? Yes.
Will I opt-out again? Always.
But here's the punchline:
During my frisking, I overheard a couple of ahem, kasual travelers, remark as they smugly walked by: "Serves him right for cutting in line."
Apparently, these yahoos don't understand the concept of elite lanes....and not just appreciate the efforts to keep them safe in the air but also for the instant justice administered to one of them fancy pants who's too good to stand in line with them.
Nov 5, 2010, 3:35 pm
#543
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: IAH
Programs: UA nada, Hyatt Disc, Hilton Gold
Posts: 846
IAH, Terminal B - 3NOV10
I last had flown out of IAH Terminal B in the second week of October and noticed that they had finally erected plexiglas walls to enclose the security checkpoint (doing away with the old Tensabarrier). At that time, there were still 3 or 4 WTMD at the checkpoint.
When I flew out this past Wednesday, though, the checkpoint now consists of two WTMDs (one of which was reserved for handicap and special needs use only) and two MMW machines. Fortunately, once you get past the credential check, there are a couple of lane choices defined by Tensabarrier that you can choose to use one machine or the other up front. It is not made clear at that point, however, that you are choosing one machine or the other, you have to pay attention when using the checkpoint to see where your lane actually goes. I was able to avoid them by choosing wisely. I did not see any signage indicating the ability to opt-out where you would have been able to make that decision (i.e. immediately after the credential check).
CVG, Terminal 2 - 5NOV10
My return flight to Houston offered another opportunity to avoid the attack of the body scanners. The security checkpoint immediately behind the Continental/United/US Air check-in desks in Terminal 2 offers a single WTMD and a backscatter X-ray machine. I passed through this checkpoint early in the morning and it wasn't busy, so avoiding the NoS was a simple matter of lining up my stuff on the bag scanner line by the WTMD, though I did see some people going through the backscatter machine as I was putting my shoes back on. Again I noticed the lack of signage indicating the ability to opt-out.
I last had flown out of IAH Terminal B in the second week of October and noticed that they had finally erected plexiglas walls to enclose the security checkpoint (doing away with the old Tensabarrier). At that time, there were still 3 or 4 WTMD at the checkpoint.
When I flew out this past Wednesday, though, the checkpoint now consists of two WTMDs (one of which was reserved for handicap and special needs use only) and two MMW machines. Fortunately, once you get past the credential check, there are a couple of lane choices defined by Tensabarrier that you can choose to use one machine or the other up front. It is not made clear at that point, however, that you are choosing one machine or the other, you have to pay attention when using the checkpoint to see where your lane actually goes. I was able to avoid them by choosing wisely. I did not see any signage indicating the ability to opt-out where you would have been able to make that decision (i.e. immediately after the credential check).
CVG, Terminal 2 - 5NOV10
My return flight to Houston offered another opportunity to avoid the attack of the body scanners. The security checkpoint immediately behind the Continental/United/US Air check-in desks in Terminal 2 offers a single WTMD and a backscatter X-ray machine. I passed through this checkpoint early in the morning and it wasn't busy, so avoiding the NoS was a simple matter of lining up my stuff on the bag scanner line by the WTMD, though I did see some people going through the backscatter machine as I was putting my shoes back on. Again I noticed the lack of signage indicating the ability to opt-out.
Nov 5, 2010, 3:38 pm
#544
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: Chick-Fil-A Red, Wawa, Red Cross blood donor
Posts: 4,824
Did my first opt-out today at PIT (up until this week, the FC/Preferred lines didn't lead to a NoS...TSA moved the line so that FC/Preferreds are now funneled into one).
Experience was professional and semi-intrusive (no full on groping but still...).
WTMD was fully functional. And to the 25 or so people behind me who got to use it instead of the Nos...you're welcome!
I will continue to opt out. Maybe even let me pants actually fall down next time.
Experience was professional and semi-intrusive (no full on groping but still...).
WTMD was fully functional. And to the 25 or so people behind me who got to use it instead of the Nos...you're welcome!
I will continue to opt out. Maybe even let me pants actually fall down next time.
Nov 5, 2010, 5:27 pm
#545
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
A great fear has arisen within my still confused thought process. (Blame the meds.)
As I read through these comments and those in other threads, they are turning toward, "Oh, that was not so bad" and similar sentiments.
It may not be that they are humiliating.
They really may not be painful.
The screeners may be polite, even friendly.
The process may be well defined, okay its not but let's say it is.
They may be improving procedures to make it quicker.
Folks! They are training us. And they are being successful. We are being converted.
Never, ever forget.
It is that they are doing it!
{rant/off}
As I read through these comments and those in other threads, they are turning toward, "Oh, that was not so bad" and similar sentiments.
It may not be that they are humiliating.
They really may not be painful.
The screeners may be polite, even friendly.
The process may be well defined, okay its not but let's say it is.
They may be improving procedures to make it quicker.
Folks! They are training us. And they are being successful. We are being converted.
Never, ever forget.
- Let me take a picture of you naked.
- If you do not, I get to rub you down like a common criminal under suspicion for a serious crime.
- And if you do not like it, I have you removed from the airport, and you lose your money and your time for today.
It is that they are doing it!
{rant/off}
Nov 6, 2010, 1:23 pm
#547
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SEA
Posts: 2,556
(1) "Nonconsensual" means a lack of freely given agreement
(4) "Sexual conduct" means any of the following:
(a) Any intentional or knowing touching or fondling of the genitals, anus, or breasts, directly or indirectly, including through clothing
It seems that TSA is saying that in order to be allowed to board an aircraft you may be sexually assaulted (as legally defined above), e.g. intentionally touched on your genitals through your clothing without your consent, by TSA personnel. If this is not the case (i.e., that TSA specifically does not allow any touching of genital areas) then TSA should clearly state this in writing. I have been unable to locate such a statement by them.
Nov 6, 2010, 2:46 pm
#549
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
$10.00 is the maximum for a multi-day/multi-segment grope.
Nov 6, 2010, 2:49 pm
#550
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: SUV
Programs: UA *G MM
Posts: 7,017
Wow, this was quite a revelation for me on Monday. If have only been flying intl since August and the basement diamond lane at IAD is WTMD. Hopefully, it will stay that way.....
At BOS (US Air Shuttle) there was only one lane open and the only option was Nudeoscope. I refused. I got a pretty thorough pat down, which I didn't enjoy much, but it was pretty quick at least.
This is bloody well outrageous.
At BOS (US Air Shuttle) there was only one lane open and the only option was Nudeoscope. I refused. I got a pretty thorough pat down, which I didn't enjoy much, but it was pretty quick at least.
This is bloody well outrageous.
Nov 6, 2010, 2:49 pm
#551
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: HP/US Gold, Hilton Gold, Starwood Gold
Posts: 711
Regardless, unless you're in certain counties in Nevada, solicitation is illegal. Should turn ourselves in at the airport.
Nov 7, 2010, 8:28 am
#552
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 69
I opted out at IND a week ago. As gropes go, it was okay, but it seemed designed to be public shaming for disobedience.
I politely said, "I need to opt out" and was quietly told to stand right behind the radiation machine while we waited for a female to be available.
I could see my stuff causing a pileup in the X-ray belt, but I wasn't allowed to get anything and no one got it for me. I could see the bin that my Macbook was in but couldn't see the actual computer, so I spent the entire time watching that bin to make sure the computer never left it.
When the female TSO came, we moved away from the machine to a very public area, in full view of other passengers. I was intent on watching the Macbook bin so wasn't aware of the audience's reaction during the search, but afterwards another traveler told me with anger that the process was "ridiculous." I don't know if she had gotten groped herself or was upset that I had been searched so thoroughly in public.
The female TSO was polite and a little apologetic. I'm not shy about my body but even for me it was uncomfortable to have a stranger drag her hands across and under my breasts while other strangers watched. My top was just a t-shirt because the TSOs had told me to remove my vest.
While I was getting my stuff, an elderly French-speaking man was getting ruder treatment. He didn't understand English and went into the machine with things in his pockets. "Multiple anomalies!" a TSO bellowed. "We need a pat-down!" The little old guy stood looking confused and completely harmless while annoyed TSOs barked loud commands at him, apparently thinking he would understand English if they yelled it. It was ugly and shaming. Finally a traveler (family member?) who spoke French came up to help and the TSOs calmed down.
Even though my TSO was polite, the process itself appears to be designed as intentional public humiliation.
I politely said, "I need to opt out" and was quietly told to stand right behind the radiation machine while we waited for a female to be available.
I could see my stuff causing a pileup in the X-ray belt, but I wasn't allowed to get anything and no one got it for me. I could see the bin that my Macbook was in but couldn't see the actual computer, so I spent the entire time watching that bin to make sure the computer never left it.
When the female TSO came, we moved away from the machine to a very public area, in full view of other passengers. I was intent on watching the Macbook bin so wasn't aware of the audience's reaction during the search, but afterwards another traveler told me with anger that the process was "ridiculous." I don't know if she had gotten groped herself or was upset that I had been searched so thoroughly in public.
The female TSO was polite and a little apologetic. I'm not shy about my body but even for me it was uncomfortable to have a stranger drag her hands across and under my breasts while other strangers watched. My top was just a t-shirt because the TSOs had told me to remove my vest.
While I was getting my stuff, an elderly French-speaking man was getting ruder treatment. He didn't understand English and went into the machine with things in his pockets. "Multiple anomalies!" a TSO bellowed. "We need a pat-down!" The little old guy stood looking confused and completely harmless while annoyed TSOs barked loud commands at him, apparently thinking he would understand English if they yelled it. It was ugly and shaming. Finally a traveler (family member?) who spoke French came up to help and the TSOs calmed down.
Even though my TSO was polite, the process itself appears to be designed as intentional public humiliation.
Nov 7, 2010, 11:03 am
#553
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
Nov 7, 2010, 11:13 am
#554
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Programs: WN A++, Marriott Plat, Avis 1
Posts: 217
I opted out at IND a week ago. As gropes go, it was okay, but it seemed designed to be public shaming for disobedience.
...
The female TSO was polite and a little apologetic. I'm not shy about my body but even for me it was uncomfortable to have a stranger drag her hands across and under my breasts while other strangers watched.
...
The female TSO was polite and a little apologetic. I'm not shy about my body but even for me it was uncomfortable to have a stranger drag her hands across and under my breasts while other strangers watched.
Personally tho, I'd never go into a room with those guys out of the view of others. I don't know the people that would take me into the back so I have no reason to trust them. Most people are decent and normal, but there are a few that are dangerous animals and psychopaths. The Standford Prison Experiment and Abu Ghraib demonstrated that that even average citizens can quickly become sadistic when given power over others. Not knowing who I'm dealing with, I'll keep in public view and endure the punishment.
Hopefully some of the other passengers that witness these searched begin to realize how far out-of-control TSA has gotten.
Nov 7, 2010, 12:21 pm
#555
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SEA
Posts: 2,556
I'd never go into a room with those guys out of the view of others. I don't know the people that would take me into the back so I have no reason to trust them...I'll keep in public view and endure the punishment. Hopefully some of the other passengers that witness these searches begin to realize how far out-of-control TSA has gotten.
