Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Sep 28, 2010, 5:16 am
#361
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
Hmmm, retaliation or belt fetish. Either way, ewww. Mrs. Cockfondle should be sooo proud. 
It's anecdotal, of course, but "extra treatment" seems more frequent for those that question the gods of security. Surely works that way for me.
It's anecdotal, of course, but "extra treatment" seems more frequent for those that question the gods of security. Surely works that way for me.
Now at BNA.
Long lines at the WN AA side, terminal C, so I went around to the Terminal A/B side and there they were. It may be why everyone seemed to be in the Terminal C lines. I was stuck in line and was directed to the machine. A barker was barking about removing everything and since I was getting TSA massage I just left them, including the belt.
I walked through the WTMD with no alarm and was directed to the salon for my massage. I said that I wanted to keep and eye on my stuff and moved to where I could see the belt and refused to budge until my stuff came through. Wouldn't you know, my carry on got pulled for a secondary.
So, I had one looking in my bag, one patting me down, and one more just standing around waiting for the gloves to run the chem test on. All in all quick and painless.
One mystery: I walked through the WTMD with no alarm and he insisted that I take the non-alarming belt off. I said why as it did not alarm. He said he had to check it. I said it is a web belt that you can see through. He insisted, as I thought he might. So I took off the belt and he proceeded to do a most ridiculous check of a light web belt.
Note for the next time: Use the C side even when flying out of terminal A/B. There are two of the machines so far, both over on the A/B side even though the two sides are connected in one big area.
Long lines at the WN AA side, terminal C, so I went around to the Terminal A/B side and there they were. It may be why everyone seemed to be in the Terminal C lines. I was stuck in line and was directed to the machine. A barker was barking about removing everything and since I was getting TSA massage I just left them, including the belt.
I walked through the WTMD with no alarm and was directed to the salon for my massage. I said that I wanted to keep and eye on my stuff and moved to where I could see the belt and refused to budge until my stuff came through. Wouldn't you know, my carry on got pulled for a secondary.
So, I had one looking in my bag, one patting me down, and one more just standing around waiting for the gloves to run the chem test on. All in all quick and painless.
One mystery: I walked through the WTMD with no alarm and he insisted that I take the non-alarming belt off. I said why as it did not alarm. He said he had to check it. I said it is a web belt that you can see through. He insisted, as I thought he might. So I took off the belt and he proceeded to do a most ridiculous check of a light web belt.
Note for the next time: Use the C side even when flying out of terminal A/B. There are two of the machines so far, both over on the A/B side even though the two sides are connected in one big area.
Sep 28, 2010, 6:23 am
#363
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: STL
Posts: 132
ATL
It was at Atlanta that I had my horrific experience (on 9/11/2010 no less) and a 45-minute wait.
I'm kinda relieved to hear that Atlanta is the worst of the worst. I'm flying next month to Chicago (from Norfolk).
I'm an educated consumer now, thanks to these many informative posts!
I'm kinda relieved to hear that Atlanta is the worst of the worst. I'm flying next month to Chicago (from Norfolk).
I'm an educated consumer now, thanks to these many informative posts!
Sep 28, 2010, 11:31 am
#364
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: EWR
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Lifetime Gold (Current Platinum), United Mileage Plus, Avis Preferred
Posts: 850
Here is my opt-out experience, from 8/30/2010, in BOS Terminal B, at the main US security checkpoint.
I was expecting to be directed to the NOS, as it seemed from my observations that everyone was being directed there after placing their items on the belt. There a TSO would direct the travelers to walk away from the belt and around to the NOS, where they were scanned, and they would walk back around on the on the other side to gather their belongings, which were all piling up unattended.
I was traveling with a colleague, and I was the first to arrive at the checkpoint. My bins and bags were on the belt, and went through the X-ray, Then I was directed to go to the NOS, and I informed the TSO that I was opting out. This TSO who had been directing all passengers to the NOS accompanied me over to the pat-down area, and waited until the pat-down officer arrived.
So while I was being taken over to the pat-down area, my colleague put his items through the X-Ray and then proceeded through the WTMD, since there was no longer a TSO to tell him otherwise. From all evidence, it seemed my opt-out request had spared several travelers directly in line behind me from having to go through the NOS. So I jokingly yelled over to my colleague "You're Welcome, Mark!"
The pat-down officer was just about to begin as I yelled again to my colleague, this time saying, "Keep an eye on my stuff, Please!" At this, the pat-down officer picked the mat with the feet on it, and turned it to face the table where my belongings were, so I could (mostly) see them.
The pat-down itself was not memorable or offensive at all, just the standard type, not a full open handed grope or anything and it proceeded quickly.
Afterward, I grabbed my items from the bins, and re-packed my bags. There were other unattended bins & bags there as well (travelers being NOS'ed), and it would have been a simple matter to acquire a new iPhone (new to me, but actually it was used) via the proverbial "fine finger discount".
I was expecting to be directed to the NOS, as it seemed from my observations that everyone was being directed there after placing their items on the belt. There a TSO would direct the travelers to walk away from the belt and around to the NOS, where they were scanned, and they would walk back around on the on the other side to gather their belongings, which were all piling up unattended.
I was traveling with a colleague, and I was the first to arrive at the checkpoint. My bins and bags were on the belt, and went through the X-ray, Then I was directed to go to the NOS, and I informed the TSO that I was opting out. This TSO who had been directing all passengers to the NOS accompanied me over to the pat-down area, and waited until the pat-down officer arrived.
So while I was being taken over to the pat-down area, my colleague put his items through the X-Ray and then proceeded through the WTMD, since there was no longer a TSO to tell him otherwise. From all evidence, it seemed my opt-out request had spared several travelers directly in line behind me from having to go through the NOS. So I jokingly yelled over to my colleague "You're Welcome, Mark!"
The pat-down officer was just about to begin as I yelled again to my colleague, this time saying, "Keep an eye on my stuff, Please!" At this, the pat-down officer picked the mat with the feet on it, and turned it to face the table where my belongings were, so I could (mostly) see them.
The pat-down itself was not memorable or offensive at all, just the standard type, not a full open handed grope or anything and it proceeded quickly.
Afterward, I grabbed my items from the bins, and re-packed my bags. There were other unattended bins & bags there as well (travelers being NOS'ed), and it would have been a simple matter to acquire a new iPhone (new to me, but actually it was used) via the proverbial "fine finger discount".
Sep 28, 2010, 12:43 pm
#365
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Northeast Kansas | Colorado Native
Programs: Amex Gold/Plat, UA *G, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Gold, NEXUS, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 21,603
Post away. My real name is Rosemary Thornton and thanks to my books, you can find me online.
I really do have specific religious and personal objections to being stripped naked via backscatter xray images - which are then viewed by TSA workers. However, I had no idea that the "pat down" alternative was so intrusive and intensive and performed IN PUBLIC!!
Rose
I really do have specific religious and personal objections to being stripped naked via backscatter xray images - which are then viewed by TSA workers. However, I had no idea that the "pat down" alternative was so intrusive and intensive and performed IN PUBLIC!!
Rose
We've been getting a number of hits, so I'm hoping that your story will start to spread.. Perhaps we should start contacting the media with stories from FT'ers?
Sep 28, 2010, 6:26 pm
#366
Senior Moderator; Moderator, Eco-Conscious Travel, United and Flyertalk Cares
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Fulltime travel/mostly Europe
Programs: UA 1.7 MM;; Accor & Marriott Pt; Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 17,831
This morning they were putting everyone through the backscatter at LIH. I said I was opting out. The TSA agent then instructed me just to walk through as it was "off". I said I would not do that either. I would go through the metal detector. He pushed a bit, I pushed back and he said OK.
I went through the metal detector and was then instructed to wait for my pat down. As I waited, a second passenger also opted out and waited next to me. They seemed a bit overwhelmed by needing to do two pat downs and so decided the second passenger had not really opted out and was free to go.
I received a brief pat down. I then mentioned to the agent that she should be particularly concerned about working around the machines daily. The agent who patted me down said something about being told they only emit a tiny bit of radiation and were safe. I then told her the people who tested the machines and decided they were "safe" were also the makers of the machines. She and a colleague seemed concerned. The other person who opted out said he was some sort of radiation engineer (?) from CalTech and would never expose himself to the machines.
I'm going to start carrying and distributing that recent NYT article on exactly who "tested" and declared these machines "safe" to TSA employees as well as to other passengers in line.
I went through the metal detector and was then instructed to wait for my pat down. As I waited, a second passenger also opted out and waited next to me. They seemed a bit overwhelmed by needing to do two pat downs and so decided the second passenger had not really opted out and was free to go.
I received a brief pat down. I then mentioned to the agent that she should be particularly concerned about working around the machines daily. The agent who patted me down said something about being told they only emit a tiny bit of radiation and were safe. I then told her the people who tested the machines and decided they were "safe" were also the makers of the machines. She and a colleague seemed concerned. The other person who opted out said he was some sort of radiation engineer (?) from CalTech and would never expose himself to the machines.
I'm going to start carrying and distributing that recent NYT article on exactly who "tested" and declared these machines "safe" to TSA employees as well as to other passengers in line.
Sep 28, 2010, 7:19 pm
#367
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
This morning they were putting everyone through the backscatter at LIH. I said I was opting out. The TSA agent then instructed me just to walk through as it was "off". I said I would not do that either. I would go through the metal detector. He pushed a bit, I pushed back and he said OK.
I went through the metal detector and was then instructed to wait for my pat down. As I waited, a second passenger also opted out and waited next to me. They seemed a bit overwhelmed by needing to do two pat downs and so decided the second passenger had not really opted out and was free to go.
I received a brief pat down. I then mentioned to the agent that she should be particularly concerned about working around the machines daily. The agent who patted me down said something about being told they only emit a tiny bit of radiation and were safe. I then told her the people who tested the machines and decided they were "safe" were also the makers of the machines. She and a colleague seemed concerned. The other person who opted out said he was some sort of radiation engineer (?) from CalTech and would never expose himself to the machines.
I'm going to start carrying and distributing that recent NYT article on exactly who "tested" and declared these machines "safe" to TSA employees as well as to other passengers in line.
I went through the metal detector and was then instructed to wait for my pat down. As I waited, a second passenger also opted out and waited next to me. They seemed a bit overwhelmed by needing to do two pat downs and so decided the second passenger had not really opted out and was free to go.
I received a brief pat down. I then mentioned to the agent that she should be particularly concerned about working around the machines daily. The agent who patted me down said something about being told they only emit a tiny bit of radiation and were safe. I then told her the people who tested the machines and decided they were "safe" were also the makers of the machines. She and a colleague seemed concerned. The other person who opted out said he was some sort of radiation engineer (?) from CalTech and would never expose himself to the machines.
I'm going to start carrying and distributing that recent NYT article on exactly who "tested" and declared these machines "safe" to TSA employees as well as to other passengers in line.
Sep 28, 2010, 10:43 pm
#368
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,975
At MCI, Saturday 9/25/10 at 6 a.m. I'm used to being able to turn right when entering the WN area to avoid the NOS, but that was roped off; I had to turn left with the WBI and WMTD together, and I was directed to the WBI. I said "I opt out," no argument, they had me go through the WTMD and wait where feet were marked, in a narrow space with my back right against the side of the backscatter. (That being something I shouldn't have had to do occurred to me later.) I waited under a minute, they took my things to a space around the corner for the pat-down, asked if I wanted it in private, I said no. It was normal, a few minutes, back of his hands on sensitive areas, without really going to the most sensitive area. Then residue test on a bag.
They probably don't get that many opt-outs, at least for now, because people who know to opt out know to take the right-hand side, which opened after 6.30; I could have waited.
They probably don't get that many opt-outs, at least for now, because people who know to opt out know to take the right-hand side, which opened after 6.30; I could have waited.
Last edited by rove312; Sep 29, 2010 at 9:48 am Reason: Specified backscatter
Sep 29, 2010, 12:14 pm
#369
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4
Opted out, and then "tricked" us
Sept. 13, 2010
Columbus International
Concourse B security
My wife is deaf. I am not.
We were taking a flight to New Orleans through Houston.
I explained to her ahead of time about the backscatter machine, what it did, and that she could opt out. She indicated that she would want to opt out and take the pat down.
We arrived at the airport, loaded up our bins, and sent them through the x-ray machine.
TSA#1 indicated that wife was selected to go through backscatter. Wife did not know they made the request (was not looking at TSA#1s face to lip-read). I stepped in to indicate my wife's request to opt out and informed wife that they had made the request. I explained why I was stepping in to translate.
TSA#1 warned about pat down. Wife and I indicated that we were aware.
A second TSA(#2) on other side of WTMD motioned me through. I made my way to our belongings to catch up. TSA#1 escorted wife to backscatter machine, presumably to walk her through without a scan and move on to pat down. TSA#1 walked away. TSA#3, on back side of backscatter machine, stopped wife in the machine and instructed her to stop, turn sideways, arms up (wife had no idea what she was doing)...
They scanned her.
TSA#1 didn't communicate to TSA#3 that wife had opted out and was to proceed directly through to pat down.
By the time I had reached our belongings, gathered a few, and turned to check on wife, she was already in position in the machine and being scanned. I began to get TSAs attention about the mistake, but got responses of "it's already done."
We contacted Supes and explained situation. They pulled aside several people, got stories from everyone involved. Concluded that it was an innocent communication breakdown. I expressed that we were livid that our request was not communicated down the process of security properly. They apologized verbally, handed us a form to fill out and pointed out the number to call.
We moved on to our gate.
I don't recall if that Concourse B security has a way of walking from one side of the backscatter and WTMD machines to the other side without walking THROUGH the machines.
Suggestions and/or feedback greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Columbus International
Concourse B security
My wife is deaf. I am not.
We were taking a flight to New Orleans through Houston.
I explained to her ahead of time about the backscatter machine, what it did, and that she could opt out. She indicated that she would want to opt out and take the pat down.
We arrived at the airport, loaded up our bins, and sent them through the x-ray machine.
TSA#1 indicated that wife was selected to go through backscatter. Wife did not know they made the request (was not looking at TSA#1s face to lip-read). I stepped in to indicate my wife's request to opt out and informed wife that they had made the request. I explained why I was stepping in to translate.
TSA#1 warned about pat down. Wife and I indicated that we were aware.
A second TSA(#2) on other side of WTMD motioned me through. I made my way to our belongings to catch up. TSA#1 escorted wife to backscatter machine, presumably to walk her through without a scan and move on to pat down. TSA#1 walked away. TSA#3, on back side of backscatter machine, stopped wife in the machine and instructed her to stop, turn sideways, arms up (wife had no idea what she was doing)...
They scanned her.
TSA#1 didn't communicate to TSA#3 that wife had opted out and was to proceed directly through to pat down.
By the time I had reached our belongings, gathered a few, and turned to check on wife, she was already in position in the machine and being scanned. I began to get TSAs attention about the mistake, but got responses of "it's already done."
We contacted Supes and explained situation. They pulled aside several people, got stories from everyone involved. Concluded that it was an innocent communication breakdown. I expressed that we were livid that our request was not communicated down the process of security properly. They apologized verbally, handed us a form to fill out and pointed out the number to call.
We moved on to our gate.
I don't recall if that Concourse B security has a way of walking from one side of the backscatter and WTMD machines to the other side without walking THROUGH the machines.
Suggestions and/or feedback greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Last edited by OSUbacksplatter; Sep 29, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Sep 29, 2010, 3:09 pm
#370
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Valley Springs, Ca USA;Proud Retired AAer SJC Ramp/ AA- 2 MM Platinum;Hilton Diamond
Posts: 851
LAX last Sunday night enroute to BNE out of T-4. Family of 5. We are steered to a non NOS line so I am relieved. Male TSO in the next (WBI) line directs my much too cute for her own good sixteen year old daughter to the NOS line. Female TSO then condescendly says to her, "Sweetie, just step right over here (the WBI)..." and begins to give her directions. Well trained daughter responds with "I am opting out!"
You may have heard the expression to have one's "jaw dropped," but that is exactly what happened to the TSO. But she (the TSO) recovered quickly, completed a very fast old style frisk and that was all. I also had both of my ten year old boys practice "opt out" but we did not get to see the effect of that.
Reviewing these threads I am still not sure whether Australia is using WBI and if so, whether opt out is in place but I will report upon leaving BNE next week unless someone else can enlighten me now.
You may have heard the expression to have one's "jaw dropped," but that is exactly what happened to the TSO. But she (the TSO) recovered quickly, completed a very fast old style frisk and that was all. I also had both of my ten year old boys practice "opt out" but we did not get to see the effect of that.
Reviewing these threads I am still not sure whether Australia is using WBI and if so, whether opt out is in place but I will report upon leaving BNE next week unless someone else can enlighten me now.
Sep 29, 2010, 4:01 pm
#371
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
LAX last Sunday night enroute to BNE out of T-4. Family of 5. We are steered to a non NOS line so I am relieved. Male TSO in the next (WBI) line directs my much too cute for her own good sixteen year old daughter to the NOS line. Female TSO then condescendly says to her, "Sweetie, just step right over here (the WBI)..." and begins to give her directions. Well trained daughter responds with "I am opting out!"
You may have heard the expression to have one's "jaw dropped," but that is exactly what happened to the TSO. But she (the TSO) recovered quickly, completed a very fast old style frisk and that was all. I also had both of my ten year old boys practice "opt out" but we did not get to see the effect of that.
Reviewing these threads I am still not sure whether Australia is using WBI and if so, whether opt out is in place but I will report upon leaving BNE next week unless someone else can enlighten me now.
You may have heard the expression to have one's "jaw dropped," but that is exactly what happened to the TSO. But she (the TSO) recovered quickly, completed a very fast old style frisk and that was all. I also had both of my ten year old boys practice "opt out" but we did not get to see the effect of that.
Reviewing these threads I am still not sure whether Australia is using WBI and if so, whether opt out is in place but I will report upon leaving BNE next week unless someone else can enlighten me now.
Last edited by doober; Sep 29, 2010 at 4:08 pm Reason: Cursor going bonkers........
Sep 29, 2010, 4:14 pm
#372
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nashville, TN - BNA
Programs: Hilton Gold, WN RR
Posts: 1,818
At MCI earlier this afternoon, backscatter machines have been installed. I opt out - agents are not draconian but I am pulled aside behind the backscatter machine, and have to speak up repeatedly to prevent being separated from my belongings - which I'm told I'm not allowed to touch after they exit the X-ray. I am allowed to stand where I can see them after my protest. After about three minutes, an agent carries them over to a corner where I can see them before my public frisking.
Another agent has a trainee in tow. The frisking is not terribly invasive but I do let all and sundry know I'm taking note of badge numbers and such to report the incident if it feels in the least like sexual assault.
My sense is they're starting to get complaints. The agents appeared to have a plan in place for opters-out. The backscatter machine was clearly labeled, and I did see an opt-out sign.
The traveler next to me was protesting LOUDLY about civil rights, etc....of course we bonded, I told her about the EPIC lawsuit, the Orlando courthouse photos and similar. My parting shot: At least you don't have children they're trying to take naked photos of.
Only a few minutes from start to finish, but I definitely will be downloading and planting some of the new FT Nude-o-Scope brochures for my return to BNA later in the week.
[Edit:
Thanks, Ink. Good to see you around. I wondered about this on my trip BNA-MCI last week, when I went through C and didn't see the infernal things despite the recent big splashy article in the Tennessean - which I wrote two novels in the comments section of. PM me if you need a link.]
Another agent has a trainee in tow. The frisking is not terribly invasive but I do let all and sundry know I'm taking note of badge numbers and such to report the incident if it feels in the least like sexual assault.
My sense is they're starting to get complaints. The agents appeared to have a plan in place for opters-out. The backscatter machine was clearly labeled, and I did see an opt-out sign.
The traveler next to me was protesting LOUDLY about civil rights, etc....of course we bonded, I told her about the EPIC lawsuit, the Orlando courthouse photos and similar. My parting shot: At least you don't have children they're trying to take naked photos of.
Only a few minutes from start to finish, but I definitely will be downloading and planting some of the new FT Nude-o-Scope brochures for my return to BNA later in the week.
[Edit:
Note for the next time: Use the C side even when flying out of terminal A/B. There are two of the machines so far, both over on the A/B side even though the two sides are connected in one big area.
Last edited by divemistressofthedark; Sep 29, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Sep 29, 2010, 7:19 pm
#373
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
+1
Australian airport security is airport security the way it should be. After the endless abuse we get here from TSA, you'll be amazed at the difference.
Australian immigration does what they need to do, but they are much more polite & pleasant than our CBP.
Australian immigration does what they need to do, but they are much more polite & pleasant than our CBP.
Last edited by MikeMpls; Sep 29, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Sep 29, 2010, 7:22 pm
#374
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SYD (perenially), GVA (not in a long time)
Programs: QF PS, EK-Gold, Security Theatre Critic
Posts: 6,785
There was a cursory "trial" of WBI at MEL and SYD but it was so limited or short-lived that I never saw it. Brisbane is WBI free. Enjoy your visit to Australia.
