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Old Feb 15, 13, 10:31 am   #3511
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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
That's also nonsense. You don't have to fake an injury to opt-out and you don't have to demonstrate that you can't "assume the position".

I'm really surprised so many are making such a big deal about "medically" opting out. All you have to say is "I'm opting out." End of story. You don't have to give a reason.

Once you get to the "pat-down" AKA grope then explain any issues you have when they ask "Do you have any medical devices? Do you have any sensitive areas? etc."

It's not that complicated.

and ... I just completed opt-out #97 today at PIT without issue.

... Just counting the days until I get my Global Entry / TSA Precheck card and I can be done with opt-out pat-downs and gropes.
Bolding mine: If you say the words "opt-out" you will be allowed to pass thru the WTMD but you will receive the full grope as opposed to saying something to the effect that you "cannot raise your arm"/"assume the position" (and give a simple reason as to why you cannot) and then you will be allowed to go thru the WTMD where if no alarm, you should (n.b. should) be good to go-tho you may out of "randomness" , receive a full grope-and if you do, ask if it is because you were deemed an "opt-out" as if the answer is yes, procedure is being violated where at that point, you should ask why.

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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Some people say it is by the book, but since none of us has ever seen the book, we really have no idea what it says.

We do know, however, that screeners can and do ignore SOP every day.

Someone also posted elsewhere in this forum: he contacted TSA HQ for clarification on this matter. The reply he got back was that it was up to the screeners to make the determination: alternatives could be the WTMD or a full-body grope, at the whim, er, discretion of the screener
Bolding mine: That they do
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Old Feb 15, 13, 11:58 am   #3512
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Originally Posted by goalie View Post
Bolding mine: If you say the words "opt-out" you will be allowed to pass thru the WTMD but you will receive the full grope as opposed to saying something to the effect that you "cannot raise your arm"/"assume the position" (and give a simple reason as to why you cannot) and then you will be allowed to go thru the WTMD where if no alarm, you should (n.b. should) be good to go-tho you may out of "randomness" , receive a full grope-and if you do, ask if it is because you were deemed an "opt-out" as if the answer is yes, procedure is being violated where at that point, you should ask why.
If you do not use the words 'opt out', but you respectfully say that you are physically incapable of assuming the position because ...[reason], you may also be told that this means that you are an 'opt out'. It always happens this way to me. At PHX T2, you may even be challenged to display your limitations before being told that you are an 'opt out' and will have to undergo a full-body grope instead of being sent through the WTMD.

If you ask if this is procedure, you will (IME) be told 'yes' or 'yes, it is at our airport, anyone who does it differently is doing it wrong'.

TSA HQ's official response to an inquiry (posted by someone elsewhere in the TS&S forum) is that either procedure (forced grope or WTMD) is acceptable procedure.

Of course, if you asked TSA HQ if it was standard procedure to make a pax stand on his head and bark like a dog, the answer would probably be 'in some cases, the officer's judgment, known unknown threats, bla-bla'.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 12:35 pm   #3513
 
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I wear an insulin pump and I never use the term opt out. I always tell them I can't because of the insulin pump. That's a medical reason, but I always get the patdown. More airports seem to just let me get my grope, swab my pump, and let me be on my way.

Every so often, I get the lecture about how safe the scanners are, less radiation than 2 minutes of flight, less radiation than a cell phone, etc. Those drive me crazy. I've even been told to tell my doctor that he wrong and that I should go through the scanner. It's the manufacturer who says not to go through the scanners. There was a teenager last year at SLC that had her pump damaged by the scanner, so I'm not taking chances.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 12:43 pm   #3514
 
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Originally Posted by spd476 View Post
I wear an insulin pump and I never use the term opt out.
Thanks for validating as well.

I think the takeaway is that there is no 'standard' and what some people may experience isn't what everyone experiences.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 1:08 pm   #3515
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How REAL law enforcement professionals view the TSA


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Originally Posted by MichaelKade View Post
I asked to have the resolution pat down in public, was refused. Was told that I would not be able to fly if I did not comply. "No problem, my work will be upset but I don't really want to go anyway." TSA Three Striper replied "Well I can call them and let them know why you can't come."
When TSA employees ask about what I do for a living, I always decline to provide any information.


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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
My TSA Precheck is just a few weeks away from finding its way into the system. I finished my interview at MIA last week.
I'm curious what questions are being asked during the PreCheck interview. A PM would be fine if you'd rather not post in the forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by reamworks View Post
When I opt-out at SJC, they INSIST that I walk through the machine and they assure me that it's not on.
Is there a gate to walk through?


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Originally Posted by FearFree View Post
This would have been my (non)reaction as well. Let him pull my shorts down in front of everyone.
Same here. I've been losing weight, so I have a few pairs of jeans that are loose. Just me, but I know that the TSA employee doing a same sex grope on another man in public, in his hometown, and causing pants to drop will be more embarrassed than me.


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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
Walking through the machine for an opt-out grope on the other side isn't going to hurt anything but your feelings. It's a harmless box until energized.
If you trust TSA employees know how to operate the equipment competently.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 2:10 pm   #3516
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Originally Posted by spd476 View Post
I wear an insulin pump and I never use the term opt out. I always tell them I can't because of the insulin pump. That's a medical reason, but I always get the patdown. More airports seem to just let me get my grope, swab my pump, and let me be on my way.

Every so often, I get the lecture about how safe the scanners are, less radiation than 2 minutes of flight, less radiation than a cell phone, etc. Those drive me crazy. I've even been told to tell my doctor that he wrong and that I should go through the scanner. It's the manufacturer who says not to go through the scanners. There was a teenager last year at SLC that had her pump damaged by the scanner, so I'm not taking chances.
Exactly. I often get a similar lecture - about safety, long waits for the grope, invasive nature of the grope - as thought the lecture is going to make my physical limitations magically disappear.

It's like a guy with a really bad pickup line in a bar - do these lectures really ever work? Do they really ever make a pax with a physical or medical limitation suddenly go "Oh, OK, I'll just use the NoS then?"
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Old Feb 15, 13, 2:16 pm   #3517
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
Same here. I've been losing weight, so I have a few pairs of jeans that are loose. Just me, but I know that the TSA employee doing a same sex grope on another man in public, in his hometown, and causing pants to drop will be more embarrassed than me.
I like the idea of the poster who (accidentally) went for his grope with his fly down. In my case, most people aren't going to notice because most people aren't going to be kneeling down next to me with their eyes inches away from my genital area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
If you trust TSA employees know how to operate the equipment competently.
Why should TSA make an issue about it? If there's no pass-through gate, offer the pax the WTMD instead of the NoS. If they're just passing through for a grope, then it isn't going to impede traffic either way.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 3:20 pm   #3518
 
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post

I'm curious what questions are being asked during the PreCheck interview. A PM would be fine if you'd rather not post in the forum.

If you mean Global Entry interview, they're fairly basic (at least in my case), mostly just a confirmation of what you put on the application. How long I've lived at my address, where I work, will I be using GE for work or personal, etc. That plus fingerprinting and watching a video. Pretty quick.

This thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...hwhile-76.html has some other people's experiences in it.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 4:15 pm   #3519
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
I like the idea of the poster who (accidentally) went for his grope with his fly down.
I read that a while back, too. I keep forgetting to take my fly down. I think I need to put a reminder in Outlook or my Google Calendar for my flights next week.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart View Post
That plus fingerprinting and watching a video.
I submitted to fingerprinting for my AOA credential ten years ago when I worked for US. Who knows where that data is now, but given the poor track record of DHS, they're not getting any more personal information from me.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 8:24 pm   #3520
 
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
When TSA employees ask about what I do for a living, I always decline to provide any information.
I've never been asked at a check point although I was asked during my Precheck interview. I told them in general terms what I do for a living without being specific.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
I'm curious what questions are being asked during the PreCheck interview. A PM would be fine if you'd rather not post in the forum.
It's no secret. Maxwell outlined the questions pretty well in his post copied below.

In my interview it was.

How did you hear about the program? - Coworker ...
What do you do for a living? - I travel a lot ...
Have you ever been convicted of a crime domestically or internationally? (To which they already know the answer.) - No...
Do you have any questions? - No...

... and that was it. Quick and painless. I have no skeletons in my closet and I'm constantly being background checked for my work anyway. So it was really no big deal to me.

They take your photo to put on your card and fingerprint you and that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
Same here. I've been losing weight, so I have a few pairs of jeans that are loose. Just me, but I know that the TSA employee doing a same sex grope on another man in public, in his hometown, and causing pants to drop will be more embarrassed than me.
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
If you trust TSA employees know how to operate the equipment competently.
Yes, I trust that in the nanosecond it takes me to walk through the NOS it will not be turned on. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of unfounded paranoia surrounding those machines. I opt out based on principal not for fear of radiation/MMW exposure. Plus it's fun to share my opt-out experiences here and compare notes with everyone.

And yes, as I was accused of earlier, I do have a working knowledge of radiation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart View Post
If you mean Global Entry interview, they're fairly basic (at least in my case), mostly just a confirmation of what you put on the application. How long I've lived at my address, where I work, will I be using GE for work or personal, etc. That plus fingerprinting and watching a video. Pretty quick.

This thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...hwhile-76.html has some other people's experiences in it.
Thanks for the link Maxwell. I knew there had to be a thread on it here somewhere.
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Old Feb 15, 13, 10:39 pm   #3521
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Originally Posted by N965VJ View Post
I'm curious what questions are being asked during the PreCheck interview. A PM would be fine if you'd rather not post in the forum.
When I signed up, the agent also asked me how I flew on such cheap tickets (I told him about some of the deals I had been on).. Spent about 80% of the interview chatting about travel and sports.
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Old Feb 16, 13, 5:47 am   #3522
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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
...I trust that in the nanosecond it takes me to walk through the NOS it will not be turned on....
Wow, you are fast! Light travels just 10 inches in a nanosecond, and nothing goes faster than light (according to Einstein, anyway).

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Old Feb 16, 13, 7:14 am   #3523
 
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Originally Posted by bdschobel View Post
Wow, you are fast! Light travels just 10 inches in a nanosecond, and nothing goes faster than light (according to Einstein, anyway).

Bruce
I know that. I was being facetious. My point is it doesn't take long to walk through the unit.

Last edited by KenTarmac; Feb 16, 13 at 7:27 am..
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Old Feb 16, 13, 9:26 am   #3524
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Originally Posted by KenTarmac View Post
I know that. I was being facetious. My point is it doesn't take long to walk through the unit.
It doesn't take long for ionizing radiation to cause cell damage -- in fact, it takes a lot less time than it takes you walk through the back-scanner. I don't know about you, but I've had melanoma. I'm not going near an uncalibrated, unmaintained source of ionizing radiation that can be turned on by someone in a remote room who is not a licensed x-ray technician. YMMV.
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Old Feb 16, 13, 9:38 am   #3525
 
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It doesn't take long for ionizing radiation to cause cell damage -- in fact, it takes a lot less time than it takes you walk through the back-scanner. I don't know about you, but I've had melanoma. I'm not going near an uncalibrated, unmaintained source of ionizing radiation that can be turned on by someone in a remote room who is not a licensed x-ray technician. YMMV.
Yes. YMMV.
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