Go Back   FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Sign in using an external account

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jul 30, 12, 6:20 am   #2836
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanSimmons View Post
He hasn't posted here in almost two years. I'm not sure that he should be considered an "active" member.
Blogdad Bob was/is never "active" in the sense that he posted/posts much of anything here. But the issue was, does he monitor this board; and the answer is that he openly admitted to watching this board. If it's not still him personally, you can bet your bippy that somone (or more than one) from TSA monitors the board regularly.

~~ Irish
__________________
Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat.
IrishDoesntFlyNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 12, 7:39 am   #2837
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: RDU
Programs: Status Free
Posts: 140
RDU 7:55am 7/30

Told the barker I could not hold the position (everyone through MMW, orange cone blocking WWMD). He beckoned to one of the clerks on the other side of the WWMD, pointed at me and gave an exaggerated shrug - code for medical I guess. The cone was moved, I went through, and was told to have a nice day. No patdown.
ediemac1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 12, 5:01 pm   #2838
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IAH mostly.
Programs: I still call it Onepass every now and then. Platinum.
Posts: 449
Went through BOS Terminal C just now and it was ridiculously easy to SDOO. Some scanners were roped off and some were in use... I just got out of the line I was in and walked over to the WTMD lane, right in front of the barker. Half expected to get yelled at and made to stay, but she just watched me do it and did nothing.

I was through security in less than 10 minutes without a lick of trouble.... Have my GE interview next week, I sure hope that this is a harbinger of things to come when I can do precheck.
__________________
I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest. - HD Thoreau
cottonmather0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 12, 1:35 am   #2839
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceduck View Post
There are also passengers who walk through the WTMD with their arms over their heads.
I do that very deliberately and theatrically. Why? It creates a very visual image of someone 'submitting' to a heavy handed police state. I have about a 1 in 7 (I keep a count) success rate in having the screener telling me to 'put your hands down - this isn't a hold up'.... When I respond 'really?' I am rewarded with this peculiar look on their face as they reconsider what is actually going on.

A tiny, pointless victory - but then you take what you can get
Darkumbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 1, 12, 8:44 pm   #2840
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: At This Point, Only G*d Knows!
Posts: 3,467
Last weekend, I along with a good friend were leaving a small airport and he was ahead of me in-line when a TSA employee motioned to him to enter the body scanner, he opted-out due to health concerns.

The TSA employee insisted it was safe, but my buddy explained he was advised by his MD to avoid all radiation if at all possible (including chest x-rays and such). The TSA employee had him walk through the metal detector and wait (along with three other male passengers) for the lone other male TSA employee to take him to the pat-down area and start the pat-down process.

I was directed to the body scanner and I opted-out, the TSA employee got somewhat nervous as he was the only other male at the check-point that day (something about somebody else being out sick) and begged me to go through the Body Scanner, I insisted that I wanted to opt-out and for the first time since the body scanners rolled out, the TSA employee walked through the machine closed it and had me walk through the metal detector ONLY! I stopped on the other side expecting him to have me wait in-line to be patted down, but no, he said collect your things and have a safe flight.

My friend had to wait in-line for about 15 more minutes before he was patted down and allowed to leave the checkpoint.

I guess if the checkpoint is inundated with pat-downs and there are not enough of the needed the gender they can close the machine for a bit until the backlog is caught up.

Either way, I was happy that I avoided the body scanner and a pat-down.

Dan
dan1431 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 12, 12:19 am   #2841
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: "Nowhere!!!" your honor my client is in the witness protection program.
Programs: Spoiled by Skywards
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1431 View Post
Last weekend, I along with a good friend were leaving a small airport and he was ahead of me in-line when a TSA employee motioned to him to enter the body scanner, he opted-out due to health concerns.

The TSA employee insisted it was safe, but my buddy explained he was advised by his MD to avoid all radiation if at all possible (including chest x-rays and such). The TSA employee had him walk through the metal detector and wait (along with three other male passengers) for the lone other male TSA employee to take him to the pat-down area and start the pat-down process.

I was directed to the body scanner and I opted-out, the TSA employee got somewhat nervous as he was the only other male at the check-point that day (something about somebody else being out sick) and begged me to go through the Body Scanner, I insisted that I wanted to opt-out and for the first time since the body scanners rolled out, the TSA employee walked through the machine closed it and had me walk through the metal detector ONLY! I stopped on the other side expecting him to have me wait in-line to be patted down, but no, he said collect your things and have a safe flight.

My friend had to wait in-line for about 15 more minutes before he was patted down and allowed to leave the checkpoint.

I guess if the checkpoint is inundated with pat-downs and there are not enough of the needed the gender they can close the machine for a bit until the backlog is caught up.

Either way, I was happy that I avoided the body scanner and a pat-down.

Dan
Hence why the TSA just shut down the scanners on National Opt Out Day, Thanksgiving, day after Super Bowl leaving IND, and seemingly any other big event.

Bravo for the fellow opt out support. Now say there were 19 of you, perhaps a collegiate sports team? What better team building than to all opt out.
Ysitincoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 2, 12, 5:24 am   #2842
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IAH mostly.
Programs: I still call it Onepass every now and then. Platinum.
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysitincoach View Post
Hence why the TSA just shut down the scanners on National Opt Out Day, Thanksgiving, day after Super Bowl leaving IND, and seemingly any other big event.

Bravo for the fellow opt out support. Now say there were 19 of you, perhaps a collegiate sports team? What better team building than to all opt out.
Which exemplifies the cynicism and hypocrisy of the whole system. If it's such a "key" technology that is more secure than WTMD's, then you should never bypass it without resorting to a patdown.

But if the scanners and the patdowns can just be bypassed whenever things get crowded or backed up, then it must not be that critical and therefore it's not needed at all. This is what seemed to be missing from coverage of Opt-out Day, that one final step of journalistic inquiry.
__________________
I was not born to be forced. I will breathe after my own fashion. Let us see who is the strongest. - HD Thoreau
cottonmather0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 5, 12, 8:46 pm   #2843
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 28
Opted out for the first time last night at LAX (always found the WTMD until now--I don't fly a huge amount). Contrary to expectations, it was totally painless. It seemed like the guy directing traffic wanted me patted down as quickly as possible. My guess is that the opt outs come in waves--someone else did right after me--and they don't want people hanging around giving others ideas.

(The frustrating thing is that they'd shut down the NoS while I was stuck in line behind a family with 9,000 bags, but had started it up again by the time the family had gotten a move on.)
mathe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 12, 8:12 am   #2844
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: At This Point, Only G*d Knows!
Posts: 3,467
Interestingly, I opted out at FLL a few days ago and the TSA employee actually said to me, "I don't blame you, I hate the darned machine too".

While he was searching for a box of gloves (all three were empty) he said that, "that the body scanners make the employees lazy as they assume the machine is perfect".

I said I am not used to a TSA employee openly speaking out against his employers choices/technolgy and he said, "I was a cop for 22 years in Miami and we did not have all this technology to assist us and we still managed to find criminals and get the bad guys off the street, most of my (TSA) colleagues would not know when a bad guy stared them in the face."

He then started his extremely cursory pat-down and finally said to me, "I can tell from just looking at you that you are not a problem and this pat-down is a waste of mine your time, but sadly I cant break policy, I wish TSA was smarter", he then finished his pat-down and wished me a nice day.

I said to him, I wished more of your colleagues thought like you and he smiled, chuckled and said me too.

Dan
dan1431 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 12, 9:23 am   #2845
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1431 View Post
he said, "I was a cop for 22 years in Miami and we did not have all this technology to assist us and we still managed to find criminals and get the bad guys off the street, most of my (TSA) colleagues would not know when a bad guy stared them in the face."
I always wonder, "What happened to make you decide to give up a mostly-legitimate line of work in favor of assaulting American citizens for a paycheck?"
Caradoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 12, 10:06 am   #2846
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN A+ w/CP, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 7,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caradoc View Post
I always wonder, "What happened to make you decide to give up a mostly-legitimate line of work in favor of assaulting American citizens for a paycheck?"
He is probably collecting retirement and the TSA salary.
__________________
The Consultant's Dilemma: You can't tell a man he has an ugly baby.
InkUnderNails is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 6, 12, 12:06 pm   #2847
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
He is probably collecting retirement and the TSA salary.
I understand that part of it. I just question as to whether he retired his conscience on the previous job, or sold it for the new one.
Caradoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 12, 7:38 am   #2848
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: At This Point, Only G*d Knows!
Posts: 3,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by InkUnderNails View Post
He is probably collecting retirement and the TSA salary.
My guess as well, just a retired Police Officer collecting his pension and working for the TSA to augment his income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caradoc
I always wonder, "What happened to make you decide to give up a mostly-legitimate line of work in favor of assaulting American citizens for a paycheck?"
I think the simple answer is that most TSA employees do not give half as much though about theirs jobs as we do on this board. My sense from the few conversations I had with TSA employees over time is that most see it as a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less. Some are not even sure why they do what they do, other than it is in the name of security.

I had one TSA employee flat out tell me, he has very little understanding of the reasoning behind the actions of his job, other than what TSA has told him, that by following their policies and procedures he in ensuring the safety of the nation. Essentially he is trained how to do X, but not given much of a reason for why he does X.

Dan
dan1431 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 12, 11:19 am   #2849
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan1431 View Post
I had one TSA employee flat out tell me, he has very little understanding of the reasoning behind the actions of his job, other than what TSA has told him, that by following their policies and procedures he in ensuring the safety of the nation. Essentially he is trained how to do X, but not given much of a reason for why he does X.
In other words, he's not even intelligent enough to be trusted to do the job, let alone understand why the job shouldn't be done in the first place.
Caradoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Aug 7, 12, 11:34 am   #2850
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lawrence, Kansas (FOE/MCI)
Programs: AA EXP, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, G.E./NEXUS, Amex, UA 1K/RCC, TSA Disparager Unobtanium
Posts: 19,084
This is from my trip through the SAN Commuter Terminal on Saturday.

For those of you that have not flown through the commuter terminal, it only has four gates, and one checkpoint with one WTMD, one bksx, and two bag x-rays. Naturally, the WTMD was rped off, and the BKSX was primary

I was the only person going through security at the time, so the clerk seemed to dedicate most of his attention to me. I really didn't appreciate his attitude, which reminded me of

Here is our exchange:

Clerk: <points to BKSX>
Me: I have a shoulder injury, and can not raise my arms
Clerk: Alright, then you're opting out?
Me: No, this is a medical issue, and we are allowed to go through the WTMD
Clerk: I don't know where you are getting your info, but that is false
Me: Oh, really? I've had to do it four times in the past week.
Clerk: If you don't go through the BKSX, you will receive a full body pat down
Me: Go ahead and ask a three-striper if you don't believe me.

At this point, it seems that the clerk was getting annoyed because I wouldn't play along with his little game.

He kept arguing with me, which led to the TDC to step-in and say "If he's ineligible for the "AIT" , then you open up the WTMD.

It got more interesting as the clerk began to argue with the TDC

Clerk: He said that a supervisor allowed him to go through
TDC: Then let's ask the supervisor.

Clerk: He has a medical issue, and says that he is allowed to go through the WTMD?

Three Striper: That is correct. If he is ineligible, then let him through the WTMD. He'll only get a pat-down if he alarms.

Clerk: :sigh:

After a couple minutes of back and forth, I made it through. It's just ridiculous to see how stupid some of these people are. If I were the three-striper, I would have pulled this clerk for his rude attitude, and for arguing with the passengers. When you have fellow employees telling you that you are wrong, it's time to admit defeat, not keep arguing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cottonmather0 View Post
Which exemplifies the cynicism and hypocrisy of the whole system. If it's such a "key" technology that is more secure than WTMD's, then you should never bypass it without resorting to a patdown.

But if the scanners and the patdowns can just be bypassed whenever things get crowded or backed up, then it must not be that critical and therefore it's not needed at all. This is what seemed to be missing from coverage of Opt-out Day, that one final step of journalistic inquiry.
Bingo

I went through ORD twice this past weekend, and noticed that only 2/5 Chertoff Irradiation machines were turned on, with the rest blocked with carts. Why even run two
__________________
Thanks for the memories, UA | 4/5/1926-3/2/2012
Check out my Travel Blog | TSA Pre-Check for UA Passengers
FriendlySkies is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:11 am.