NY-FLA

Oh, right I've frequently observed non-uniformed but airline ID carrying people breeze through security with no liquid limitations enforced. Not enough for a charade bypass huh?


Take a deep breath, think it through.

Fact: Explosives exist in many physical forms. Banning liquids completely does not effectively exclude explosives. Explove exclusion should be your agency's goal. And the cunning terrorists have recently, as many on here predicted, switched to powder in their choice of explosives.

Fact: Allowing liquids past checkpoint charlie as long as they're in portions < 100ml doesn't limit how much liquid can be accumulated in the "sterile" area.

Fact: The dozens of exceptions, including the flight crew exception, to the <100ml limit furthers the ease with which mass quantities of liquids can be accumulated in the "sterile" area

I call charade. It would seem the reason your agency instituted a >100ml liquids ban is because liquids readily show up on the X-Ray, so readily that even the dullest X-ray operator can recognize and confiscate them. The occasional airline traveller may actually walk away impressed that the ever vigilant TSA is so good, they can intercept potentially dangerous liquids in a travellers carry-on without so much as a hand search.
The fact that there are so many exceptions to the liquid rules, and that all these dangerous liquids accumulate in open containers, right there at checkpoint charlie, fray the edges of your circus tent. TSA's actions, in total, prove to critical thinkers that this is all a witless theater, which can only impress some of the infrequent flyers passing through the TSA's 3-ring act.

TSO1973

If that is what you saw, then the TSO's involved are not following SOP. If a crew member is not part of the flight crew, just deadheading, then the same liquid-aerosol-gel restrictions apply as they do to other passengers. Crews don't like that but whatever. Now I can already hear the "oh another TSO not following SOP" grumblings, but that certainly is far from how it is supposed to be done.

N965VJ

How would you know the difference?

TSO1973

Deadheading crew generally don't go in uniform. That goes for FA's and Captains/FOs.

coachrowsey

Wrong.

GalleyWench

Just wanted to clear up a little snafu in your terminology. If a crewmember is deadheading then they are indeed on duty and working. Deadheading is when the airline schedules the crew to ride as passengers either at the beginning, end or the middle of a trip to get them into position for their next flight.
I think you might be thinking of non-revving, which is the term used when crew members are travelling on their own time and not on duty.
If you ask a crew member if they are deadheading and they answer yes, then they should still be allowed their normal exemptions.

goalie

correct and rightly so but there is sadly a double standard when it comes to non-revving as i've seen many a non-rev go thru security "with a working/deadheading f/a limit" by simply having their badge visible and/or using the upside down small grey container trick. it's not the non-rev's fault (other than trying to bring more than what's allowed in ) but rather the fault of the tso's on duty as they need to know that working and/or deadheading is exempt and non-revving is not exempt

GalleyWench

I agree, when a crew member is just non-revving on vacation or personal travel they should not be exempt. Whenever I travel for leisure I just check my suitcase containing my liquids, it's easier all the way around and one less thing to worry about. I very rarely non-rev anywhere anymore, mostly because the flights are so full it takes me a day or two to travel and on my days off the last place I want to be is in an airport or on an airplane. I've really taken a liking to camping.

Boggie Dog

The problem with this whole deal is that if an item has been determined to be a potentail weapon then it should be searched for at the checkpoint with no exemptions.

Why wouldn't a determined forced not try inserting their weapon from a trusted person?

Thinking outside the box is a worn out term but TSA needs to dust it off and try it out for a change.

TSORon

Oh, it occasionally happens. A dead heading crew member may occasionally try to bypass the requirements, and if they get caught they loose their job. We get reports of this happening all the time, and I think the point is getting out to them that the bottle of water is not worth their job. Sure they can get away with it for a while, but eventually they get caught.

TSORon

OK, lets try thinking outside of the box then.

[out of the box]Air crew dont need guns, bombs, knives, or any other weapon to destroy an aircraft. Nothing TSA (or anyone else) can do will prevent a determined crew member from destroying their aircraft. Nothing.

Why is the TSA screening them anyway? [/out of the box]

There is potential in this argument for folks to use their common sense. Odds are against it, but anything is possible.

able

Wrong.

If a crew-member is uniform it matters not at all if he/she is operating/deadheading or commuting.

tusphotog

I know of at least one pilot (for an airline that will go nameless) who says he routinely shows up at an airport in uniform, then changes out of the monkey suit in the bathroom on the other side of security.

He says he does this every time he travels.

jkhuggins

I'm sure I'm hardly the first person to point this out, but ...

Your argument presumes that an air crew member would be trying to destroy their own aircraft. What if an air crew member was trying to destroy some other aircraft? All they have to do is walk through the hypothetically-non-existent screening with a weapon or weapons. Once inside the checkpoint, they hand off the weapon(s) to a co-conspirator, who boards a completely different flight with those weapons and subsequently causes an incident.

And, of course, this argument works even better if the air crew member is being blackmailed or otherwise coerced into complying with the terrorist in question. ("Help me destroy my plane or I'll destroy yours instead.")

Supposedly, the point of current TSA screening procedures is to keep WEIs from getting aboard aircraft. TSA attempts to achieve this goal by trying for a much more difficult goal: keeping WEIs from getting onto concourses (the so-called "sterile area"). As long as there are people who can enter the sterile area without being screened for WEIs, there are obvious ways to get WEIs into the sterile area, and thereby onto aircraft.

Grumpyold

I am seeing a lot of sarcastic comments here without any attempt to find out the facts about a crewmember's life.
All crew members are required to have 15 year background check with the FBI and a 15 year background check with the DOT. The DOT background check is more stringent than the FBI background check.
All crew members are randomly drug tested.
The airline which hires crewmembers knows their school, work and travel history.
All crew members can have their bags checked at random at any time.

Zero passengers are required to have a background check with with the DOT or FBI as a condition of carriage.
Zero passengers are randomly drug tested as a condition of carriage.
Zero passengers are required to provide their school, travel or employment history or even their arrest history to the airline.
Airline crew members pretty much gave up all of their privacy to the system a long time ago.
Crew members are not on vacation. They are often housed in hotels with poor food choices and only expensive transportation choices for creature comforts. Crewmembers often have minimal rest between work days.
So they need to bring extra things along because they are trapped at the airport and flea bag hotels in the middle of nowhere most of the time.
Also you can check liquids. Crew members are not given a way of checking bags. So we travel around the world solely with what is in those bags you see us dragging behind us. Plus the airlines keep finding ways to make us work more and more. I am on the road 21-23 days a month. Is it so offensive to you that I am allowed a few of the creature comforts you take for granted at home on a day to day basis?
I know travel makes most people cranky but truthfully a pilot or flight attendant with a bottle of water makes zero difference in the type or quality of travel experience you have.
Pilots and flight attendants are not super priviledged. These are just people trying to get by in the world just like you. Our jobs are just differently structured than yours.