num1bearsfan

I don't actually. I've always thought it was a stupid rule. I still have to deal with it when I fly, which is all the time.

Global_Hi_Flyer

Airport badge or not, the premise that was set forth was that airline folks were "special" because they had been through a background check. I skewered that argument by pointing out that a LOT of us have background checks that are equivalent to or go beyond that of the airline employees. Now you and others say "well, that's not good enough". Apparently some animals are more equal than others.

Case in point: I am cleared to fly an airplane into general aviation airports within the FRZ around Washington DC (there are three general-aviation-only airports that meet that criteria) but I can't carry a lousy bottle of water through security.

Putting aside the nonsense of the rule for a minute, the attitude of "we're special, and you're not" doesn't justify the unilateral ban on water. Either water is dangerous or it's not, either background cleared people are risky or their not (regardless of employer).

Spiff

I don't give a rat's behind about the FBI or background checks they conduct.

Either liquids are dangerous or they are not. Despite Idiot Boy Kip Hawley's evidence-free claim that they are, I maintain that liquids are not dangerous and should not be restricted for anyone.

DfT and TSA should both be destroyed. Idiot Boy Hawley should be caned and sent to prison.

GoingAway

BS!! That "vetting" is so useless its laughable. It doesn't keep out the thieves, illegals and others that have no business having some "trustworthy" or "security" associated with them.

scoow

By that logic, they should be allowed to show ID & carry water through even if they are not in uniform/ on duty. So, why aren't they? Perhaps because TSA doesn't consider SIDA clearance to be sufficient?

And, you are overlooking the point that most frequent flyers are "going to work" when they head to the airport. So, why isn't there a policy to allow them to carry water through the checkpoint if they pass a background check?

num1bearsfan

Ok well let's say you see me use my swipe badge to enter a secure door in the middle of an airport. Do you think it's unfair that I get to go through that door and you don't? I mean, by your logic, you should be privy to airport privileges that the other airport employees have, since you have some other type of federal clearance....

Also, technically, I am not even required to be screened upon entering the sterile area of an airport. I am allowed to circumvent security altogether by entering a side door at the airport using my SIDA badge. When doing so I am allowed to bring my bottle of water. So, don't you think it's kind of stupid to impose the no liquids rule on employees who simply chose to enter via the checkpoint? I'm a run of the mill ramp agent BTW.

I'm done debating this topic now. If you SERIOUSLY don't get the point by now then you're just choosing to not accept reality. Sometimes you'll get into a debate on a forum with someone or a group of people who simply don't WANT to see it your way, and you get caught up in an endless debate of circular logic and half cocked thoughts. That's what's taking place right now.

Spiff

Apples and grapefruit. We all use the "security" checkpoint.

num1bearsfan

"we" don't actually.. Like I said in my previous post (Did you read it? The whole thing?), I'm not even required to go through security to enter the airport, but some people do anyways because it's actually quicker sometimes (imagine that), why would you impose the liquid rules when they could have circumvented security completely?

Boggie Dog

The statement above details exactly why everything TSA is doing is all for show.

Way to many people have free access to the secure areas of airports, the aircraft and baggage/cargo without any screening what so ever.

There is no Transportation Security, just a third rate stage show with cheap special effects.

num1bearsfan

Well I wouldn't say that. Like I said, the people are screened via an extensive FBI background check. Take my word for it, it's pretty extensive. Upon my hiring, I was hung up by an incident that happened when I was a young kid. Basically a school yard fist fight that the police later broke up. To my amazement, 12 years later, it actually showed up on my background check upon hiring at my current job. I had to have it removed from my record before I could be issued a SIDA badge, but when i went to the county clerk to take care of it, they didn't see anything there. It was as if there was a whole other layer that was not even visible to ordinary law enforcement. I had to basically get a letter from the actual county clerk stating that there were no outstanding charges stemming from the incident. A LOT of leg work for something that was a non event, and I'd be surprised if many other people would have even gone through the trouble. So in other words, anyone in possession of those badges are squeeky clean.

But in some respects you're right. Airport screening is not 100%. But I believe the true preventative measures for preventing any sort of act of terrorism aboard an airplane are taking place at the pentagon and overseas. Don't forget, they foiled that bombing plot in the UK (the one that spawned the liquids ban) through pure police work and intelligence.

Boggie Dog

I don't know much about civilian security clearances, mine was through the military that permitted access to non-conventional weapons among other things. Yet I am not trusted with a bottle of water at our nations airports. And from the documented reports of thievery at airports at the hands of either TSA, airline or airport employees I have to wonder about the quality of these so-called clearances.

You also apparently have never heard of "squeeky (sic) clean" Bankers, Lawyers, Doctors, Policemen, an Ex-SEC Chairman, Congressman (to many to count) or a POTUS (Nixon, not Bush) doing something out of character or illegal.

A security clearance only checks what you have already done, not what you may do.

How trusting of you! Me, I don't trust you or anyone else that bypasses security.

Security should have one standard and that standard should apply to each and everyone entering the secure area. Doing otherwise corrupts the secure area.

Spiff

I am completely against any airline/airport employee bypassing security. Everyone should be screened in a sane and sensible way. Some animals should not be more equal than other animals.

I am also completely against any liquid restrictions for anyone. Did you read my post? (You edited your post 8 minutes after I posted, BTW)

The TSA "leaders" who have created these "security" loopholes (airside access w/o security check) and liquid restrictions for some are scumbags who should be caned and imprisoned.

Spiff

All liquid restrictions imposed in 2006 should be immediately rescinded and the two agencies responsible for this stupidity, DfT and TSA, should be taken out back and shot.

Always Flyin

Are you aware that not one of the defendants in that case in the U.K. was convicted of anything to do with bombing aircraft? They weren't even convicted of conspiracy to detonate explosives on aircraft.

Even if they had been able to acquire all the materials needed and had managed to get them all on board, are you aware of what would have been necessary for them to properly mix the chemicals to create an explosive device and the amount of time it would have taken? No one ever would have noticed that someone was in the lav for more than 45 minutes...

Take a look at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...abs/print.html

This was a threat without any real chance of succeeding, yet the governments completely overreacted. If it was a legitimate threat, why are passengers being allowed to carry-on any liquids?

Prohibiting liquids through security is a worthless endeavour. It accomplishes nothing. The real answer to all this is to lift the indefensible liquids ban.

B747-437B

Which is exactly why the rest of the world finds it so difficult to take US Airport Security seriously. If one is entering a "sterile" area, one needs to be physically checked. If not, the "sterile" area has been compromised.