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Old Jan 19, 2017, 8:44 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: StartinSanDiego
Please read this Wiki before posting questions in the thread.

Do not post offers or requests for referral links in this thread! The proper thread for referral offers is here.
All Chase issued cards are here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap

This thread--a continuation of previous discussions through May 2015 and December 2016--focuses on general Chase policies & practices for new applications. For information on specific Chase cards and their bonuses/terms/benefits, see the following threads and their associated wikis: Table of Contents
  1. Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?

  2. What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?

  3. Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?

  4. How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?

  5. How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?

  6. Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?

  7. Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?

  8. Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?

  9. I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?

  10. I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?

  11. I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?

  12. How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?

  13. Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?

  14. Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?

  15. Useful Chase telephone numbers

Does Chase have a limit on the number or frequency of applications like Citi's 8/65 rule?
Chase does not have a known limit. However, several reports (for example) indicate that Chase is highly sensitive to multiple applications within a short time period, and that the second (or subsequent) applications run a substantial risk of being denied. In many cases, this is likely related to Chase's practice of allocating a large credit line (up to an applicant's personal maximum) when approving a new card such as the first application in a series. (See also the discussion below concerning aggregate Chase credit lines.)

What's this I hear about Chase denying applications to people who have recently opened a lot of credit cards?
Starting in May 2015, Chase began denying applications for its own personal cards (e.g., Sapphire Preferred, Freedom, Slate & Freedom Unlimited) if the applicant's credit report shows that she or he opened 5 or more credit cards with any card issuer in the prior 24 months ("the 5/24 rule").

For a few days in early September 2016, Chase included explicit language ("You will not be approved for this card if you have opened 5 or more bank cards in the past 24 months") on the application page for the Sapphire Reserve card--and then promptly removed it. The absence of this language on landing/application pages for the CSR or any other Chase card is not a reliable indicator of whether the 5/24 policy applies.

See the next section for co-branded cards exempt from the 5/24 policy, and the later section discussing potential ways around 5/24.

Does the 5/24 rule apply to applications for all Chase cards?
Previously the rule did not apply to applications for the Ink Plus business card or to co-branded cards such as United, Hyatt, IHG, etc. However, on May 22, 2016 Chase extended its 5/24 rule to cover Ink business cards and some co-branded cards. (Note that there were premature reports that Chase Ink Plus would be made subject to the rule in March 2016 (which did not happen), and that all co-branded cards would follow in April 2016 (also did not happen).)

Although we had numerous reports of applications prior to May 22 being denied for a United/Hyatt/IHG/WN card by a CSR citing the 5/24 rule, the available evidence strongly suggested that those applicants had other serious issues--multiple Chase applications in a short period; large existing Chase credit line--and that overzealous CSRs gratuitously (and erroneously) invoked the 5/24 rule in the past as an additional supposed justification for the denial. Thus, it is difficult to separate such false positives from any change in Chase policy.

Instead, the most useful data points are those where an applicant is approved for a Chase card despite being over 5/24. Since May 22, 2016, we have such reports for these co-branded cards (in order from oldest to newest for each card):
For a longer list of cards apparently not subject to 5/24, check this link:
In November 2018, Chase seems to have possibly expanded 5/24 to more cards, possibly including some mentioned above. See this link:
Please follow discussion in the thread for current updates.

How does Chase calculate the number of an applicant's new cards for purposes of the 5/24 rule?
The 24-month count includes personal cards opened at other banks, and even cards on which the applicant is only an authorized user and not the primary cardholder. Chase has been extremely inflexible with this policy, with agents stating that there is nothing they can do to circumvent this restriction. However, in some cases Chase may reconsider a denial if the applicant has <5 new cards excluding cards on which s/he is an authorized user. You may need to escalate to the next level of customer service agent, as many front-line agents seem to be unable or unwilling to remove the authorized user accounts from the count.

Note:

How does Chase calculate the relevant 24-month period? By calendar months? By exact days?
In February 2017, a FTer reported a successful application a day or two after dropping from 5/24 to 4/24. However, because Chase sometimes approves applicants who are at 5/24 exactly (see above), this data point does not conclusively prove that Chase drops cards from its calculation on the exact 24-month anniversary of the previous bonus.

Can I get around the 5/24 policy by closing cards I've opened in the past 24 months?
No. Chase uses the information from your credit report, and closing an account doesn't make it disappear.

Is there any way around the 5/24 policy (targeted mailers, pre-approvals, Chase Private Client status)?
As to targeted mailers, we have insufficient anecdotal evidence to reach any reliable conclusions. (Reports suggesting no exemption from 5/24 here and here.)

There have been reports of people with more than 5 cards opened in the last 24 months being successful if they are already pre-approved for the card in question. To find out if you are pre-approved, you can call or go into a branch to ask. Success stories appear to be connected to Chase Private Client (CPC) status and the rollout of the Chase Sapphire Reserve card. In-branch pre-approvals (showing a green screen on the banker's computer) result in automatic approvals. Some (but not all) CPC clients had success in recon calls[[I]citation needed].

Can I apply for a specific Chase card and earn the bonus again after doing so previously?
It depends. A Chase card may be "churned" when an entirely new version becomes available. For example, business cards are distinct from personal/consumer cards. Note that simple variations among bonus offers do not amount to new versions/products for purposes of this rule.

Beginning in 2014, Chase began including explicit language in most of its offers, such as the following:
This new cardmember bonus offer is not available to either (i) current cardmembers of this consumer credit card, or (ii) previous cardmembers of this consumer credit card who received a new cardmember bonus for this consumer credit card within the last 24 months.
Effective August 2018, Chase imposed stringent additional restrictions on receiving the signup bonus for any version of the Sapphire card. See Sapphire (CSR & CSP) 48 months between bonuses, August 2018 and the master threads for each card (listed above) for details and discussion.

There are four key considerations in determining whether you can churn a given card:
  • The 5/24 policy discussed in detail above.
  • The 24-month bonus waiting period--in the case of Sapphire cards, the collective 48-month period--is measured not from the date of your previous application (or approval date, if different), but instead from the date you received the signup-related bonus on the previous card, which may be 3-4 months later than the approval date. The same rule applies regardless of the type of signup bonus received (points, miles, or free-night certs); anniversary benefits unrelated to spending requirements, such as annual IHG & Marriott certs, do not count as signup bonuses.
  • If you still have your old card of the same type, you're ineligible.
  • Chase's policy does not indicate whether there is also a minimum waiting period between cancellation and reapplication, and there is not yet sufficient anecdotal evidence from FTers to draw firm conclusions. At a minimum, a prudent churner will wait at least a week or two after cancellation before reapplying so that all of Chase's systems fully reflect that closure. (See first bullet point above.) At least one FTer has reported re-applying successfully 14 days after canceling the previous card.
Finally, note that if you reapply too soon, Chase may still issue you the new card. (This differs from some other card issuers, which may deny such applications outright.) In this case, Chase typically notifies you by letter within a month or two after approval that, as a previous cardholder, you will not receive the bonus a second time.

I'm an authorized user for a card issued to my spouse/parent. Does that prevent me from signing up for the same card and earning a bonus?
No. Being an additional user on someone else's account poses no bar to applying for that same card & bonus, except insofar as such cards may count toward the 5/24 rule (as discussed above).

I already have several Chase cards with a substantial aggregate line of credit. Will it improve my odds if I close an existing account (or lower its credit line) before applying for another?
Yes.

In the past, the conventional wisdom among FTers was that you were more likely to hurt your chances by closing an account or reducing CL unilaterally. However, substantial evidence from 2014 onward strongly indicates that Chase is increasingly likely to reject applications (or at least not auto-approve them) where an applicant has an existing total credit line that is high compared to his/her income & spending patterns. (For many members, the threshold appears to be in the $45K-60K range, but that is highly speculative.)

Recent reports suggest that closing accounts and/or voluntarily reducing credit lines increases the odds of auto-approval or in-branch pre-approval. (You can do either by calling or simply sending a secure message through your Chase online account. You do not need to provide a reason for the request.) For best results, keep at least $5K-10K in excess credit; if your application is not approved, you can always contact the reconsideration department and offer to reallocate that portion of your existing credit line. Note: despite allowing credit line to be moved between personal and business accounts in the past, Chase is no longer permitting such reallocation in either direction.

With respect to timing, it is better to reduce any CL as soon as you can conveniently do so, e.g., after meeting the bonus spend on a card you do not plan to use regularly thereafter. (Do not reduce CL on a given card if it would increase your "credit utiilization"--that is, the ratio of outstanding balance to CL--above ~30%. A high credit utilization number is a red flag for banks and can adversely affect your credit score.) Waiting until one's next application to lower a CL is less than optimal, as the reduced CL is not immediately recognized by all of Chase's systems.

There is no known minimum wait between lowering a CL and having the freed-up amount become available for purposes of a new application. A prudent applicant will, as recommended above, plan well in advance; failing that, an applicant would be wise to wait at least 24 hours between lowering a CL and applying for a new card.

I wasn't auto-approved. Should I call in?
It may be better to avoid calling Chase unless your application is denied. Many recent calls on pending applications led to denials, and many people report having success letting applications work their way through the system. Be patient. Time is on your side; increasingly, Chase CSRs are not.

If you do call, expect extensive and possibly hostile questioning. Be prepared to answer questions regarding the need for more credit, past credit apps for both Chase and other banks, income, business finances, etc. Know your CLs with Chase before you call so you know which card/s you are willing to decrease the CLs on. If the app is for a significant other who dislikes such calls, they can authorize you to speak on their behalf and hand the phone over to you.

How can I determine the deadline for meeting the spend requirement to earn the signup bonus?
Just send Chase a secure message (SM) through your online account. Although the deadline should in theory be N months from the date of approval (not the date of application or card activation)--where N is the number of months specified in the offer--Chase typically pads this period to account for the time required to fabricate and deliver physical cards. For example, a recent "3-month" deadline was in fact 114 days, as confirmed by Chase's SM confirmation.

Once I meet the card's spend requirement, how soon will I receive my signup bonus points?
Bonus points typically accrue at the close of the billing period in which you incur the corresponding charges. Points should appear in your hotel/airline account within a few days thereafter.

NOTE: If you complete your required spending in the last 7-10 days of the statement period, the bonus may not post until the following month's statement, even if the regular per-dollar points post on the first statement. This is normal behavior for Chase and is not worth a phone call.

Should I downgrade or cancel my existing cards before applying?
Useful Chase telephone numbers
(800) 432-3117 – General Application Status Line, automated
(800) 436-7927 – Alternative General Application Status Line, automated
(888) 609-7805 – Alternative Personal Reconsideration line with live rep
(888) 269-8690 - Business Credit Card Application Status Line, automated
(800) 453-9719 – Business Credit Card Reconsideration Line with live rep
(800) 955-9900 – General Card Services and Application status, automated
(888) 298-5623 – Credit Reallocation Office (Personal cards)
(800) 453-9719 – Credit Reallocation Office (Business cards)
(888) 622-7547 – Executive Offices
(877) 470-9042 – Personal Application Verification line with live rep
Twitter: @ChaseSupport
Note: In the past, automated telephone status reports stating that Chase would notify you in 2 weeks often resulted in an approval, whereas the "7-10 days" telephone recording often indicated imminent denial. In 2016, this pattern became increasingly unpredictable, with many applicants receiving approval despite an earlier "7-10 days" automated telephone message. As a result, automated telephone responses should not be regarded as reliable indicators of an application's likely outcome.
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Applying for Chase Credit Cards, 2017-2019

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Old Apr 20, 2017, 6:07 am
  #601  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
I applied for my ink preferred with $500 income, sole prop and 1 employee (me) and got approved with no problem.

My wife did the same - except for it was $100. Again, no issues.
gumercindo is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2017, 9:03 am
  #602  
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 2P, MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au, Avis PC
Posts: 5,445
Originally Posted by bobert24
Is there any kind of minimum income that we think they may be looking for from a new sole proprietorship with zero employees?
Recently approved at $1 business income.
MDtR-Chicago is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2017, 1:35 pm
  #603  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
Looking to double dip on MPE. I just applied for the MPE biz and I got the perfunctory "approval" note:

Thanks for Applying. Please call us as soon as possible at 1-800-243-6010 Mon-Fri 8am to 10pm EST to discuss your application with a Customer Support Specialist. We look forward to speaking with you

Convention wisdom says ignore and approval will happen in a couple days.

My question is, if I want to apply for the MPE personal and combine it with one hard pull, should I go ahead and do it now or should I wait for approval of the first before moving forward with the personal?
gumercindo is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2017, 1:51 pm
  #604  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 72
So I was previously a CSP card member for 2-3 years. Then the CSR came out with the 100k promotion. I dropped the CSP and picked up the CSR.

Now I have a rather large purchase I need to make ($5k+) and I want to put it towards a bonus on a new rewards card. The CSP has a ~50k points bonus, but I am unsure if I would qualify for it.
I haven't gotten the bonus in 2-3 years, and subsequently havent opened another credit card in that time aside from the CSR. Is the 24 month requirement for the last time you got the bonus for that card, or just a chase bonus in general?

The other card I was looking at is the 100k Marriott premier, though that has an annual fee.
Cheesemaster200 is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2017, 3:16 pm
  #605  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Programs: AA PPRO (OW Emerarld), BA Silver, DL PM
Posts: 491
Just applied for the CSR card online. Have about a 780 credit score and was given a message that it's under further review and I'll get a response in the mail within 30 days. Seemed a little strange has anyone else encountered similar and if so how long does it really take for them to respond?
rollthere is offline  
Old Apr 20, 2017, 6:05 pm
  #606  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,932
Originally Posted by bobert24
I'm out of the loop on Chase policies because 5/24 has kept me from applying. Last time I applied for a Chase business card (a couple years ago) there were rumors that they required an annual business income at least double your credit limit, and that minimum CLs on business cards were 5k. This meant a minimum business income of 10k. I never saw solid confirmation of this - am I correct in guessing this was nothing? Is there any kind of minimum income that we think they may be looking for from a new sole proprietorship with zero employees?
Wrong. The CL is being extended to you, not to the business, so what matters is your total income, not your business income.

(Obviously, for someone who's running their own business and making all their money from that, business income and total income might be the same, but that's relatively few people like that here. Still, I can see how that rumor might have originated with a datapoint from someone all of whose income was business income but that wasn't explained in the datapoint.)

Meanwhile, be ready to prove any numbers you provide which are non-zero. You won't need to prove $0 business income to date and 0 years in business, but you may need to prove anything else. You won't need to prove a business address which is the same as your home address (if your business name is the same as your name), but you may need to prove anything else. Ie, either tell the provable truth, or else give answers that can't possibly need proof.
sdsearch is offline  
Old Apr 21, 2017, 8:08 am
  #607  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Cheesemaster200
Is the 24 month requirement for the last time you got the bonus for that card, or just a chase bonus in general?
It is card specific, not Chase in general. So 24 months, not from the date you applied, but from the date that Chase gave you the sign up bonus. If you don't know the date you can SM Chase and they will tell you the exact date.
RobertHanson is offline  
Old Apr 21, 2017, 8:02 pm
  #608  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 615
Hi all, I just got approved today for the mileage plus explorer business card. I wanted to double up my apps yesterday with the MPE personal but didn't want to risk missing out on the biz.
I've been approved and want to apply for the MPE 70k personal. Does the 2/30 rule apply to biz/personal or should I just wait 30 days (and miss out on the 4/30, 70k) deadline?
gumercindo is offline  
Old Apr 21, 2017, 8:14 pm
  #609  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,857
Originally Posted by sdsearch
Wrong. The CL is being extended to you, not to the business, so what matters is your total income, not your business income.
Yeah, that's what was so frustrating about it. This was back a year or two ago when Chase was being so incredibly tough on business applications, grilling almost every applicant, rejecting tons of people for $0/0 months, stuff like that. For all I know, it could have just been one particular CSR's "policy" (Remember Jason, the bane of FTers everywhere?).

Anyway, thanks for clearing it up.
Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago
Recently approved at $1 business income.
^
bobert24 is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 3:34 pm
  #610  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 3
SW Premier and Plus (personal) apps

Hi All, I applied for the SW premier and plus cards last week (both personal) using a referral link form an FTer for 50k bonus points on both and was immediately approved for the premier but not the plus. The premier came with a $16.5k CL bringing my aggregate Chase credit to $40k. I'm assuming i'm getting denied for the Plus, and want to know if it would be possible to ask that they split the premier's CL among the two. Does anyone else have any info on successfully applying for both of their personal SW cards, or any tips on how to convince them to give me the Plus when i call for reconsideration?
abcdenisse is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 5:06 pm
  #611  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 159
Call and be prepared to move the credit limit. Also have an explanation (besides just the sign up bonus) ready to go on why you wanted 2 personal cards with similar benefits.
Mancolt is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 7:54 pm
  #612  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 910
Originally Posted by MDtR-Chicago
A few years back, the FT community did an investigation on this and I recall the majority opinion, mostly from myfico.com datapoints, was 10% or higher.

Optimal was every card reporting 0% with one card reporting 9% or lower (but not 0%).
How long ago approximately? Not sure if Fico scoring model has changed since re this, there have also been some (mostly hyped up) recent media articles about some banks using VantageScore for CCs, but no specific data on which bank, if any.

I've recently been paying most if not all of the balances in full before statement close, didn't do so one month and noticed an instant dip on Vantage (CreditKarma) despite the % being very low both within each card and overall, definitely lower than 10%. Most banks probably still use Fico for credit cards though.
NoonRadar is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 8:03 pm
  #613  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 910
Originally Posted by jjmiller69
Most Banks do a hard credit pull for a Checking account. At least the ones I've had experience with YMMV.
I know this is off topic, but most banks in fact do NOT do a hard pull for checking or savings, some might if you opt in for overdraft coverage (you shouldn't anyhow), very few will do a hard pull without overdraft coverage, typically not very well known, local banks.
NoonRadar is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 8:38 pm
  #614  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 728
currently have Hyatt card since 2014 but would like to cancel and get new card for the two free nights anywhere and 5k points..and because I can't stand spending and not working towards a bonus of some sort :-)

Sitting at 35/24 with 9 in the last 6 months (two of which were chase Marriott biz and Fairmont). 800+ FICO, 6 figure income. Any thoughts on possibility of getting approved? Cap One and BOA both recently denied due to number of inquiries so kind of skittish at this point. I do have approximately 20k on deposit with chase but not pre-approved for anything. Thoughts?
g8trgr8t is offline  
Old Apr 24, 2017, 8:43 pm
  #615  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 736
Originally Posted by g8trgr8t
currently have Hyatt card since 2014 but would like to cancel and get new card for the two free nights anywhere and 5k points..and because I can't stand spending and not working towards a bonus of some sort :-)

Sitting at 35/24 with 9 in the last 6 months (two of which were chase Marriott biz and Fairmont). 800+ FICO, 6 figure income. Any thoughts on possibility of getting approved? Cap One and BOA both recently denied due to number of inquiries so kind of skittish at this point. I do have approximately 20k on deposit with chase but not pre-approved for anything. Thoughts?
Based on this info I don't see anything that would keep you from getting the Hyatt card - Chase is pretty easy these days for non-5/24 cards. Just make sure your total Chase credit isn't too high before you apply.
Willbur is offline  


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