Foreign exchange rates discussion [FOREX]--all cards
May 14, 2015, 3:36 am
#46
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
I've kept track of about 100 transactions in 8 currencies on my Chase MC and Visa now. I'm mostly logging transactions that are posted on the same day on both cards, to keep them comparable no matter what the mid-rate is.
So far, the comparison to end of April vs xe.com is:
Chase MC: 1.0000 (exactly the mid-rate, to 4 significant digits)
Chase Visa (2014): 1.004124 (0.41% above)
Chase Visa (2015): 1.007236 (0.72% above)
This year, Visa transactions are so far over 0.7% more expensive than Mastercard transactions.
So far, the comparison to end of April vs xe.com is:
Chase MC: 1.0000 (exactly the mid-rate, to 4 significant digits)
Chase Visa (2014): 1.004124 (0.41% above)
Chase Visa (2015): 1.007236 (0.72% above)
This year, Visa transactions are so far over 0.7% more expensive than Mastercard transactions.
May 15, 2015, 2:21 am
#47
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I would like to contribute some of my transaction data
Chase Visa
Apr 27 429.40CNY to 69.31USD 6.195354
Chase MC
May 4 2999CNY to 483.57USD 6.201791
Citi Premier MC
May 3 6876CNY to 1108.71USD 6.201802
May 4 50CNY to 8.05USD 6.21118
Citi Prestige MC
May 8 61454CNY to 9898.52USD 6.208402
I cannot see a clear pattern here with my data points. Also there would be several data points for each day on XE.com, and these points vary hugely...
Could someone see whether my transaction data points make sense? Namely, whether Visa rates are worse than MC rates?
FYI, the dates are posting dates in the systems of both Citi and Chase.
Chase Visa
Apr 27 429.40CNY to 69.31USD 6.195354
Chase MC
May 4 2999CNY to 483.57USD 6.201791
Citi Premier MC
May 3 6876CNY to 1108.71USD 6.201802
May 4 50CNY to 8.05USD 6.21118
Citi Prestige MC
May 8 61454CNY to 9898.52USD 6.208402
I cannot see a clear pattern here with my data points. Also there would be several data points for each day on XE.com, and these points vary hugely...
Could someone see whether my transaction data points make sense? Namely, whether Visa rates are worse than MC rates?
FYI, the dates are posting dates in the systems of both Citi and Chase.
May 15, 2015, 10:38 am
#48
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF
Programs: UA, VX, QF, EY, VA
Posts: 756
I've kept track of about 100 transactions in 8 currencies on my Chase MC and Visa now. I'm mostly logging transactions that are posted on the same day on both cards, to keep them comparable no matter what the mid-rate is.
So far, the comparison to end of April vs xe.com is:
Chase MC: 1.0000 (exactly the mid-rate, to 4 significant digits)
Chase Visa (2014): 1.004124 (0.41% above)
Chase Visa (2015): 1.007236 (0.72% above)
This year, Visa transactions are so far over 0.7% more expensive than Mastercard transactions.
So far, the comparison to end of April vs xe.com is:
Chase MC: 1.0000 (exactly the mid-rate, to 4 significant digits)
Chase Visa (2014): 1.004124 (0.41% above)
Chase Visa (2015): 1.007236 (0.72% above)
This year, Visa transactions are so far over 0.7% more expensive than Mastercard transactions.
May 16, 2015, 7:34 am
#50
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
May 16, 2015, 9:18 am
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
Average value for IHG points is 0.66c (via Hotel Hustle), which makes 0.73c with the 10% MC rebate on reward nights. Clearly nowhere close, but for all those food and fuel purchases that earn double points (most of what I spend when I go out), so that's almost 1.5c/$, towards the high end of the UA estimate.
If your redemptions are average, it's hard to pick a winner in that scenario. It is easy to get significantly higher returns on either scheme, but that depends on what rewards you book.
May 16, 2015, 11:26 am
#53
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,381
Common values for UA miles are around 1.9-2.3c, giving you 1.2-1.6c/$ back after Visa gouges you 0.7c.
Average value for IHG points is 0.66c (via Hotel Hustle), which makes 0.73c with the 10% MC rebate on reward nights. Clearly nowhere close, but for all those food and fuel purchases that earn double points (most of what I spend when I go out), so that's almost 1.5c/$, towards the high end of the UA estimate.
If your redemptions are average, it's hard to pick a winner in that scenario. It is easy to get significantly higher returns on either scheme, but that depends on what rewards you book.
Average value for IHG points is 0.66c (via Hotel Hustle), which makes 0.73c with the 10% MC rebate on reward nights. Clearly nowhere close, but for all those food and fuel purchases that earn double points (most of what I spend when I go out), so that's almost 1.5c/$, towards the high end of the UA estimate.
If your redemptions are average, it's hard to pick a winner in that scenario. It is easy to get significantly higher returns on either scheme, but that depends on what rewards you book.
chase CSP: 2x on travel/dining
MC:
chase IHG: 2x on gas/grocery/restaurant
I have a BoA Travel Rewards Visa Sig (0% FTF) that gives between 1.5%/1.65%/1.875%/2.25%/2.625% back on all spend (depending where you are on the Preferred Rewards program)... Have a trip later this year, see how much they(BoA/Visa) gouge me
Even if you swipe the same card within the same hour of the same day, the rate may be different, and it may be based on yesterday's, today's, or based on when the charge was posted, mid rates for those days, highest rates for those days etc.... Just compare the rates with visa, mastercard, xe +/- 3 days
http://usa.visa.com/personal/card-be...calculator.jsp
https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/
http://www.xe.com/currencytables/
Last edited by paperwastage; May 17, 2015 at 7:54 pm
May 16, 2015, 11:34 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 81
CSP has double points category too. I would never choose IHG point over UR points when both have 2X multiplier.
May 17, 2015, 6:37 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I'm gonna go to the Starbucks next door to swipe my five cards to buy 5 bags of coffee beans in a couple of hours when the rush hour passes (it's 8:30 AM now in Beijing UTC+8).
CSP, Chase IHG, Citi Premier, Citi Prestige, Barclay Arrival+.
CSP, Chase IHG, Citi Premier, Citi Prestige, Barclay Arrival+.
May 17, 2015, 9:42 pm
#56
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF
Programs: UA, VX, QF, EY, VA
Posts: 756
Now that Citi is competitive with the Premier/Prestige combo, and the Arrival+ has working Chip+PIN CVM, I'm not sure why anyone would continue using a Chase Visa overseas.
Last edited by patrick.barnes; May 17, 2015 at 9:57 pm
May 19, 2015, 7:44 am
#57
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
The pending amount on my CSP and Chase IHG MC are the same though, for two back-to-back transactions for the same amount.
I've included Citi Premier in the comparison. Let's wait until they are all posted.
May 20, 2015, 1:18 am
#58
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
All posted.
For 85 CNY, the CSP and Chase IHG MC all give me 13.70 USD posted... It is 6.204379562043796.
CSP trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
IHG MC trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
For comparison, Citi Premier posts a 26 CNY to 4.19 USD, 6.205250596658711.
I admit the small amount of my trans can induce error. However the CSP and IHG MC all give the same USD for the same CNY (back to back on a single POS machine).
For 85 CNY, the CSP and Chase IHG MC all give me 13.70 USD posted... It is 6.204379562043796.
CSP trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
IHG MC trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
For comparison, Citi Premier posts a 26 CNY to 4.19 USD, 6.205250596658711.
I admit the small amount of my trans can induce error. However the CSP and IHG MC all give the same USD for the same CNY (back to back on a single POS machine).
May 20, 2015, 6:43 am
#59
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,381
All posted.
For 85 CNY, the CSP and Chase IHG MC all give me 13.70 USD posted... It is 6.204379562043796.
CSP trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
IHG MC trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
For comparison, Citi Premier posts a 26 CNY to 4.19 USD, 6.205250596658711.
I admit the small amount of my trans can induce error. However the CSP and IHG MC all give the same USD for the same CNY (back to back on a single POS machine).
For 85 CNY, the CSP and Chase IHG MC all give me 13.70 USD posted... It is 6.204379562043796.
CSP trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
IHG MC trans date 5/18, post date 5/19.
For comparison, Citi Premier posts a 26 CNY to 4.19 USD, 6.205250596658711.
I admit the small amount of my trans can induce error. However the CSP and IHG MC all give the same USD for the same CNY (back to back on a single POS machine).
5/18 6.203205
5/19 6.202704
5/20 6.203705
MC says
5/18 6.204100
data not available yet for rest
Xe says mid market rate is
5/18 6.2024974451
5/19 6.2085540602
5/20 6.2042764935
so who knows?
May 21, 2015, 12:36 am
#60
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Maybe it's because CNY is not a market currency?
I just cannot find Visa rate's disadvantage over MC that everybody is mentioning...
I just cannot find Visa rate's disadvantage over MC that everybody is mentioning...