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Old Aug 11, 17, 6:10 am   #1
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Talking Which flts do crew hate the most?

Which CX / KA flights do FAs hate the most because of immediate turns, weird departure times, etc. Would love to know
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Old Aug 11, 17, 6:20 am   #2
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My guess would be flights to/from mainland China because of passenger behavior.
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Old Aug 11, 17, 7:09 am   #3
  
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I was told that Singapore - Hong Kong is also a dreaded route, because of mainlanders flying to Singapore, and Singaporeans flying to Hong Kong.
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Old Aug 11, 17, 7:57 am   #4
  
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Long haul
SFO 870/879 - combination of pax profile (200 AVMLs etc) + 77G + day flight + bad outport hotel
LAX 898/897 - day flight
LHR 239 - day flight, pax drink too much, 77G
YVR 855/856 - hated if 4 day, also because 35G + day flight
CDG - hated because bad hotel / 35G
MAN - hated because 35G and 4 day
MAD/BCN - lowest allowance (200 EUR) if 4-day, in addition 77G + always full load + pax profile
TLV - 4-day + pax profile (KSML) + 35G
Almost all Australia flights - 3 day patterns, no crew rest on 33K, pax drink too much

Short/medium haul
PEK/PVG - self explanatory (delays + too many DMs)
SIN - self explanatory (too many DMs / long hours turnaround = no allowance)
NRT 520/521, CTS 580/581, DPS 785/784 - longest same day turns, but many times done by crew that join the high hours scheme who are okay with that so its actually fine normally
Ex-Japan - pax shop too much, Hong Kongers complain too much
HKG-TPE-ICN/FUK/KIX/NRT/NGO flights - not enough time to finish service, long hours and low allowance, too many pax (773Z 33P etc)
MNL/CEB/CGK - many 'ma fan' IDs

Of course, you can't really see how they 'hate' them when they're on their job, because they have professionalism unlike their American peers.
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Old Aug 11, 17, 9:28 am   #5
  
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Any flt with Hong Kong tour group is a bad flight. They don't travel all that much (many first time traveler) and believe we're at 1970 staff level and resources local soap dramas portray. We don't do 'Service straight from the heart' anymore with our hands tied with no resources, 'Service straight from the cart' is how it is nowadays.

Mainlanders I didn't use to mind so much, they'll comply with requests if you tell them so. A lot of them are quite chatty and warm just like your grannies, and sometimes the things they do you can only blame it on not them having left their village before. All good humour

The Hong Kongers though think they're above everyone and won't give up without a fight of 'what do you mean you've ran out?', 'I've paid money', 'Why? Why? Why?', 'I want to see your manager' and many other ridiculous exchanges just to hope you'll give up and give them 'compensation' in terms of upgrades and make you feel bad.

I just tell them 'this is how it is with cost cutting if you don't like it go fly someone else' then walk away, served up with a smile. Really didn't give a damn because like many of my batch mates we were in it for a short time just to fulfill a childhood dream (for me, 14 months). If they become abusive (aka swearing, threats etc.), we have a set protocol we must follow, which I liked going on because they'll shut up and remember the price of their ticket and they are on a public transport not at home. I'm not paid enough to apologize for company's poor management.

But otherwise G-CIVC summed up quite nicely. I can only imagine more and more flts on the above list since internal cost-cutting is even more rampant than customer offerings
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Old Aug 11, 17, 11:02 am   #6
  
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Let's not give the loud, disruptive, boozed up Europeans and Aussies a pass here! Arguably worse than mainlanders.
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Old Aug 11, 17, 11:16 am   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-CIVC View Post
Long haul
MAD/BCN - lowest allowance (200 EUR) if 4-day, in addition 77G + always full load + pax profile
TLV - 4-day + pax profile (KSML) + 35G
I think they are stilling loving the route only for the time being, since they are new ports lol
I also have one more to add: KUL when it was served by CX due to long turnovers.

Since we are discussing this, is there a list of favourite flights??
I could think of 2 for the time being:
MLE Long patterns in a resort
ZRH "Golden route" highest allowance
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Old Aug 11, 17, 12:48 pm   #8
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qsh View Post
I think they are stilling loving the route only for the time being, since they are new ports lol
I also have one more to add: KUL when it was served by CX due to long turnovers.

Since we are discussing this, is there a list of favourite flights??
I could think of 2 for the time being:
MLE Long patterns in a resort
ZRH "Golden route" highest allowance
While 'hate' is quite standardized (as in, basically everyone hates 870 390 and 691), the 'favorites' vary a lot more. It depends on many factors, such as their rank (an ISM won't mind a 77G just having to serve cockpit and not even have to worry about F pax at all, but the single BC is about to get vertigo from the constant double-U-turns around the J cabin); some monthly crew could care less about flying hours; some crew don't mind 'nasty flights' as they get to visit their home country/family; some happily spend their entire allowance, some value them and eat cup noodles only for the whole layover; some people absolutely can't fly to the US as they can't sleep/rest well in the bunk, or they just want to get home to see their family every day so stick with turnarounds...etc

From my FA friends, there are of course still some popular winners. The ones you raised definitely but MLE is different for 3-day compared to 5-day

ZRH yes it's one of the crowned 'golden flights' but I don't think the allowance is the highest however I know they like it because most other crew are similarly excited and they often go sightseeing. The once in a blue moon 6-day ZRH is definitely mouth watering. And of course the CHF is more palatable than EUR.

Speaking about 870, actually flights to India are not as hated as it seems. While it is nasty to work onboard, the hotels are lavish and they love getting their laundry done there (for cheap and for good). Also, lack of sightseeing temptations means lock and seal i.e. $$$.

Some other golden flights include the current chart-topper 840 (I think one 5-day 840 nets them $550+, and one definitely doesn't have to be ripped off by hotel food in NYC); and of course 8-day 888 but that's largely dominated by based crew. 846 gets less money and (I think) a more inferior hotel, so 840 is the more preferred/loved one.

548/549 is of course another obvious one if just a bit discounted with the elite heaviness and occasionally some quite demanding JP IM/SP/FPs. But I believe the crew hotel is probably the most luxurious one (maybe MEL, DXB or India can contest..)

DXB and DXB+BAH are also well loved because again luxurious hotels and not much to do = $$$ in the pocket. The DXB-BAH simple service I heard is also appreciated.

Chicago is another one that racks up to $5-600 with long hours and apparently more 'tamed' pax. The best ever FP I flew with (when I still sucked it up in PE) was a charming lady who was so cheerful and energetic as she had two back to back 806s that month and coincidentally we were on the same 807 and 806, and that mood just spread well to her juniors. U can imagine how much 'prestige' it carries when next month's 6 sets of 6-day 806 rotations are described as '載譽歸來' lol. Pity I couldn't get myself on one of those But still, some dislike it intensely because of the very long block hours that the return sector can rack up, and it's a textbook definition of what a day flight means...

LAX used to be good but this year they changed the crew hotel which led to a massive slump in allowance, and there are fewer and fewer 5/6-days patterns while 4-day is increasingly the norm (nowadays there's day 1 880, day 2 883. Yuck)

CNS is a favorite because of long layover, $ (but mostly sightseeing.)

The non-daily rotations can either be very good or downright inhumane (ie when 4-day BOS existed). So some people will gladly enjoy their 7-day Rome or sth like that, but those don't come that often at all.

Riyadh used to be the black horse as again long layovers due to non-daily pattern, and they can't leave the hotel much which means $$$ (and I think the hotel may have pwned everything else off, it was an IC...in Saudi...)

Surprisingly, the midnight red-eyes to nearby Asian destinations are not terrible too. That's because FAU agreement allows them not to have to turnaround and can stay a night ish at the outport. I know some FAs very excited about their 524s as a result!

Last edited by G-CIVC; Aug 11, 17 at 1:11 pm
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Old Aug 11, 17, 12:49 pm   #9
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-CIVC View Post
Long haul
SFO 870/879 - combination of pax profile (200 AVMLs etc) + 77G + day flight + bad outport hotel
LAX 898/897 - day flight
LHR 239 - day flight, pax drink too much, 77G
YVR 855/856 - hated if 4 day, also because 35G + day flight
CDG - hated because bad hotel / 35G
MAN - hated because 35G and 4 day
MAD/BCN - lowest allowance (200 EUR) if 4-day, in addition 77G + always full load + pax profile
TLV - 4-day + pax profile (KSML) + 35G
Almost all Australia flights - 3 day patterns, no crew rest on 33K, pax drink too much

Short/medium haul
PEK/PVG - self explanatory (delays + too many DMs)
SIN - self explanatory (too many DMs / long hours turnaround = no allowance)
NRT 520/521, CTS 580/581, DPS 785/784 - longest same day turns, but many times done by crew that join the high hours scheme who are okay with that so its actually fine normally
Ex-Japan - pax shop too much, Hong Kongers complain too much
HKG-TPE-ICN/FUK/KIX/NRT/NGO flights - not enough time to finish service, long hours and low allowance, too many pax (773Z 33P etc)
MNL/CEB/CGK - many 'ma fan' IDs

Of course, you can't really see how they 'hate' them when they're on their job, because they have professionalism unlike their American peers.

Hmm more or less you already listed out at least 80% of the destinations served by CX/KA...
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Old Aug 11, 17, 5:40 pm   #10
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Originally Posted by G-CIVC View Post
Speaking about 870, actually flights to India are not as hated as it seems. While it is nasty to work onboard, the hotels are lavish and they love getting their laundry done there (for cheap and for good). Also, lack of sightseeing temptations means lock and seal i.e. $$$.
Wow! Thanks for the so complete list!!!
Maybe they like Chicago because it is lock and seal?

Maybe the best flights of all for crew is pax back/ to the destination
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Old Aug 11, 17, 6:49 pm   #11
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-CIVC View Post
Long haul
SFO 870/879 - combination of pax profile (200 AVMLs etc) + 77G + day flight + bad outport hotel
LAX 898/897 - day flight
LHR 239 - day flight, pax drink too much, 77G
YVR 855/856 - hated if 4 day, also because 35G + day flight
CDG - hated because bad hotel / 35G
MAN - hated because 35G and 4 day
MAD/BCN - lowest allowance (200 EUR) if 4-day, in addition 77G + always full load + pax profile
TLV - 4-day + pax profile (KSML) + 35G
Almost all Australia flights - 3 day patterns, no crew rest on 33K, pax drink too much

Short/medium haul
PEK/PVG - self explanatory (delays + too many DMs)
SIN - self explanatory (too many DMs / long hours turnaround = no allowance)
NRT 520/521, CTS 580/581, DPS 785/784 - longest same day turns, but many times done by crew that join the high hours scheme who are okay with that so its actually fine normally
Ex-Japan - pax shop too much, Hong Kongers complain too much
HKG-TPE-ICN/FUK/KIX/NRT/NGO flights - not enough time to finish service, long hours and low allowance, too many pax (773Z 33P etc)
MNL/CEB/CGK - many 'ma fan' IDs

Of course, you can't really see how they 'hate' them when they're on their job, because they have professionalism unlike their American peers.

Maybe if you could list any CX flights that doesnt belong to the list above...
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Old Aug 12, 17, 9:03 am   #12
  
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This is very small sample size, but the answers are consistent. When I chat with the ISMs or Senior Pursers, the common answer is mainlanders are surprisingly NOT that bad because they are now "educated" by their government to be "civilized" or face punishment at home.

Top people group they don't look forward to:

1) Hong Kongers - they feel superior, and they usually don't take no for an answer without compensation.

2) Americans - they are abused by their own airlines so much that they take it out on Asian carriers, and most likely group to pull DYKWIA (if high status)

3) Westerners with alcohol in general - after a few drinks, their "true-self" shows

4) Demanding DMs.
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Old Aug 12, 17, 9:51 am   #13
  
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The passengers a lot of the time are not the real problem, we can hide behind the curtain in the galley and they'll be gone end of flight. We do 2 fits minimum with the same crew. It's bad teammates that makes the flight bad. There's a saying in Chinese "不怕神一樣的對手,只怕豬一樣的隊友", meaning it's not god-like opponents we need to fear but pig-like teammates it is.

With a good team (aka harmonious BC, supportive FP/SP and an ISM that follow manuals and are up-to-date with guidelines) we can battle it out, but some senior from a certain country, they'd rather spend time making cockpit coffee and first class steak than sticking up for their team. They come to work with their good'ol day first class lamb carving/YCL champagne flowing mentality giving everyone a hard time. They turn a golden flt into a flt from hell.
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Old Aug 12, 17, 9:59 am   #14
  
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Nearly all my flights are CDG-HKG-AKL in J and I must say that if they hate the CDG run they don't appear to show it, not apparent to pax anyway and I can't say that I've ever had a "disgruntled" crew as far as I can tell.
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Old Aug 12, 17, 1:03 pm   #15
  
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Lets put an opposite spin on this.....

Best Route/Best Flight - AMS.

Predominantly a Dutch crowd & the nicest Customers in the system.
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