percysmith

Still a problem 8 years on http://daisy-lancashire.blogspot.com...07312275443676?

Don't they serve a meal on the flight? Sorry I never took the shuttle (I remember being allowed to fly to PEK on Sunday arvo upteen years ago)

ermen

Ah I suppose I am one of those "culprits" haha.
But then again, I mostly fly CX/KA ex-HKG... so I am giving them some money...

percysmith

I don't think Krisflyer Gold will work with CX in HKG - or it matters. QF will happily take BA/QR's money (or CX's whenever I have a Gate <30 departure with redemption J)

QRC3288

yea, this is where FF programs really need to re-think things.

The world is just different now.

FF programs should be about driving loyalty...and specifically, loyalty in the form of revenue...to the airlines' metal. You're a great case in point. Flying CX/KA mainly but utilizing another FF program.

FF programs have just become arbitrage programs, where clever customers one-up each other but I question if they're adding much value at all anymore. Between airlines, especially in alliance like OW, everyone just moves money in a circle between them. O

Meanwhile, obtaining benefits is bizarre and sometimes counter intuitive. I think overall, FF programs have lost the plot as the world has changed.

QRC3288

just adding a datapoint to above, I'm at the airport...CX840 is on the boards as departing (or having just departed I suppose) from gate 19.

mxr

Thats correct although the Bridge does get quite crowded as well (Staff can control the flow of passengers to the right/left sides though). Pier F is due to its location the least crowded lounge and far better than the Wing F in the morning.
I guess most people are just lazy + most KA PVG/SHA flights depart from 5xx gates thus Wing F is far better located for these.

It would be interesting to know whether the $ CX gets from all those OW flights is significant at all? Also, do OW carriers pay more to other OW partners for F lounges in comparison to J lounges?

I also wouldnt be surprised if a lot of those people actually do go to CX lounges instead of the PP to which they are directed to. I'm sure that there are more than you'd guess, just from hear-say and being told by friends/colleagues etc.

They do serve meals on the flight but i'd guestimate that 50% of DM's on PVG flights are in Y/PEY and therefore a nice egg's benedict or whatever from the Wing F is a much better choice than the in-flight meal choices.

Also, although a lot of those PVG weekly shuttle DM's flying exclusively in Y will most likely manage to continue 'achieving' DM. If anything, for those guy's, getting DM just got easier with the new changes!

While before they used to rely on getting 120? sectors (52weeks x 2 = 104 sectors, 16 short of DM), now they'll get 1040 tier points in V and 1560 tier points in K. While V class earns then exactly the same as before when using sectors, its now easier for them to just mix in 1 long haul which most likely will get them to 1200.... don't know if i've explained it clearly enough?

I do believe that the US3 carriers have somewhat managed to balance the new trend of revenue-based FF program + retaining flyers within their program due to those valuable complimentary upgrades on domestic flights + upgrade vouchers for long-haul flights. Only AA EXP's get to enjoy complimentary upgrades on AA metal which entices them to keep accruing on AA instead of say BA. The 6? SWU's entice them to use AA on longhauls to make use of those vouchers.

Why not make the G16 lounge the OW F specific lounge? I guess the location would make sense for many OW departures as well?
Then the Wing/Pier could be for CX F/DM only.

1010101

Interesting. I don't think i've ever (in 100+ flights) departed long haul from that part of the airport.

QRC3288

Are those USA flights? You have some incredible odds if that's the case. it's pretty common for US flights, and this pattern resumed a few years ago when CX got exclusive control of gates 18-19 (they didn't have them previously. I don't know precisely when the switch happened but it was not before 2010, and I *think* it was more like 2014-2015 timeframe). I don't have the precise number and have no clue what gates I've gone from, but I reckon I've done at least 25 long-haul flights ex-HKG to the US in the past few years. It feels like at least 20% go from gates 18-19. This year alone I've already clocked a few. I do remember some time back - either a few years, or many years...can't recall - being very surprised to go from gate 18-19 on CX to the US. But it is quite regular now.

Gates 18-19 aren't *as* common as gates 3-4, but there is at least one flight daily, and usually multiple. Today there have been 2 to the US so far. And I think in weird situations Gate 17 is also utilized, but I know for certain that's not an exclusive CX gate. Only 18-19 are, and 3-4. And as mentioned above, the problem with 18-19 is that both jetbridge entrances are on the northern "tip". So they cram 5 gates in there. Collateral damage is the fact they can't rope off the whole tip that way, because the entrance to Gate 17 gets in the way. (Gates 3-4 are ideal because only gate 4's jetbridge is on the southern "tip").

If CX could get all gates 17-19, now that would be great. Because they could rope off the whole area. But I don't get to ask such specific questions in my meetings with HKIA or CX, particularly if it's obvious I then post it on FT.

Europe long-haul flights don't follow this pattern. It's USA flights only.

ermen

But the OW membership has driven revenue to CX. I mean, I don't (never) consider SQ or other *A members when I fly at all, even if pricing can be cheaper.. because of my status with OW.

So, even though money is circulating around the OW airlines, at least it is kept within the alliance, which I suppose is a part of the purpose?

QRC3288

Fair point, it keeps it within the circle of OW airlines then. Good point.

However, it still seems a little bizarre to me....if that's the case, there really should just be one FF program in the alliance. The differing rules / requirements / benefits for each were clearly created in a world where the intention was for program members to be overwhelming fliers on their "home" airline. And that foundation has shattered in the last decade, but the programs havent really. Sure they've changed requirements and earn rates and whatnot but they haven't changed their foundation, and I think that's just kinda prehistoric given the global world we live in. The foundation of an airline owning a FF program is to drive revenue to itself by encouraging fliers to go out of their way to stay loyal, and thus spend more $$$ on the home airline. You raise an excellent point about the alliance "circle". My follow up question to that is....then why seriously doesn't CX just cancel their own program but stay in OW? EVERY lounge entry, at that point, would be ancillary revenue!

sxc

The revenue leakage for CX for those who abandoned the program but still fly CX is them having to pay BA (or whomever) for the miles in the non CX program.

brunos

Indeed. But they also have to pay miles to Asian Miles for those in CX Marco Polo. I am not sure that it is cheaper.

Frankly, this is the Nth thread on this topic and it makes me smile as many posters simply show their personal bias.

CX wants to generate revenues whatever the OW FFP used by the pax.
Posters should realize that Hong Kong is a small base (i dont want to use words like country, city, SAR..). So MPC is primarily a very small FFP. On the other hand, HKG OW pax use mostly CX flights. There are hundreds of daily CX/KA flights compared to a few non-CX OW flights. What CX wants is to attract pax in premium cabins. What is lounge-costly to CX is all those MPC G or DM (or OWS and OWE) flying cheap regional Y.

If lounges are crowded, CX should reserve access to its top lounges to revenue pax in F and J, like QR does, and dedicate specific lounges to elite members flying Y. I think that it is the current trend and CX is considering it.

bart simpson

Does airlines really pay around $30 for the lounge access? It sounds quite expensive to me if one is a status holder flying Y...

ermen

It sounds too cheap I reckon I reckon I consume $30 of food when I visit the Pier F. Just a starter, main course and desert would set you back more then $30 I reckon?

Too much travel

It would not surprise me if a significant proportion of the most lucrative CX customers are in fact not CXMP members, but rather AA and BAEC members.

The one airport where CX and MH have competing lounges is KUL, and there is no doubt that the MH lounge is superior. I will however give it to you that in the two airports where CX and AA have competing lounges (LHR T3 and CDG) that the CX lounges are definitely better.

Indeed.

It was actually the other way round, accordingly to the CX ex-CEO at a DM function a few years ago. The fact that CX knew QF were coming up with a very good lounge accelerated the CX lounge renovation and expansion plans. In other words, we all have to thank Qantas for goading CX into providing the now excellent lounges.

Exactly. This is in fact the upside of being in an alliance. Maybe the OP only does China and regional travel, but for those of us who spend plenty of time in short-haul Y going through LHR T5, or SYD-MEL legs, or sat in random US airports, Oneworld lounge access rules are the best thing since sliced bread.

Agreed. I struggle to understand why the lowest FF tier would get lounge access.

It was already that sort of figure many years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if that figure is in fact higher now, and much higher for F.