Who are the ugly DMs?

Old Jun 12, 2017, 11:22 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by yannerd
I had an interesting chat with an FA on my last flight. She gave some interesting insights into how Cathay treats it's MPC members. Her thoughts were that Cathay goes out of it's way to retain DMs and DMs only, anyone else seems to be inconsequential.

A lot of the ISMs are lifers in the company and still live and breathe the company so they're all very happy to give DMs the unpublished perks like cheese plates and caviar. The ISMs of course don't care as they just tell the FP and BC folks to do the serving but the crew don't like doing it only because it leaves them short staffed for all the other stuff that needs to get done. The extra perks seemed to have become ingrained now though and to the point where she has gotten DMs who tell will tell her that they don't eat the Y garbage and that she better bring something from the front of the plane. If she tells them she's not able to offer them the F or J food, they just ask for a comment card to write her up.
But most of the time, the ISMs offer them themselves. I think it is more about how doing this is not equitable at all - just because one is DM doesnt mean one should get something not within their paid class of service.

On a similar note, she did mention that Hong Kongers are the worst flyers of any group. They're incredibly demanding and still expect to be treated like royalty when flying CX.
But there is a reason why 691/759/739 are some of the most 'hated' regional flights....

What's also interesting is that in her opinion, positive comment cards don't mean anything nor help with promotions and such but negative comment cards will get the crew members an immediate talking to from management.
That's absolutely true. That's why I've stopped writing compliments and instead buy them gifts like chocolate.
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Old Jun 12, 2017, 11:47 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by yannerd
....What's also interesting is that in her opinion, positive comment cards don't mean anything nor help with promotions and such but negative comment cards will get the crew members an immediate talking to from management.
Originally Posted by G-CIVC
.....That's absolutely true. That's why I've stopped writing compliments and instead buy them gifts like chocolate.

Interesting.

I've heard the same thing about the compliment cards from ISMs at CX and AC and worse, exactly what yannerd posted.

How sad is that?

The chocolate part is interesting.

Crews do not expect gifts in appreciation of their service but still, it's a nice gesture.

On a recent CX flight, I was so impressed with the ISM and FAs who served the cabin that I wanted to find a way to make the long flight more enjoyable. I bought everything chocolate that the onboard duty-free had and gave it as gifts - with cards included - to the ISM and her team as well as the captain and his team.

I don't need to post the reaction, but I wanted to make sure they knew I wasn't doing it for any additional onboard service or benefits, but just a way to say thanks for being awesome.

As you know, I am neither MPC, nor DM, nor a "local" as it were. I choose to fly CX and I pay for J. Not every flight is great, but when a crew stands out, how can you not say thanks with a gift.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:13 am
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Originally Posted by G-CIVC
But most of the time, the ISMs offer them themselves. I think it is more about how doing this is not equitable at all - just because one is DM doesnt mean one should get something not within their paid class of service.
I think this is just something that has been perpetuated and now a lot of DMs have come to expect this type of service.

Having said that, I saw one of the FPs helping a passenger with her baby by kneeling down and holding the baby while the passenger was eating. This seemed to really peeve some of the crew as they now felt that they had to provide the same service or they might get written up. Once you set that expectation, people come to expect it all the time.

...That's absolutely true. That's why I've stopped writing compliments and instead buy them gifts like chocolate.
Originally Posted by 24left
...As you know, I am neither MPC, nor DM, nor a "local" as it were. I choose to fly CX and I pay for J. Not every flight is great, but when a crew stands out, how can you not say thanks with a gift.
I've always debated doing this. I know North American carriers are happy to receive gifts like chocolates and I do give them sometimes but I always have reservations about doing the same for crews on Asian carriers. I didn't really think that crews from Asian carriers actually like gifts from passengers. It's kind of reminiscent of something like my grandma giving fruit or something as a gift and you can see the the other person appearing to accept it happily but as soon as my grandma leaves you know they're just going to throw it away. Maybe it's just the Hong Konger in me that's pragmatic.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:14 am
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Not sure which ISM told you that compliments don't mean anything. In the numerous times I write compliments, the crews are overjoyed (including ground crews, when I also offered to write them compliments, they are overjoyed). I asked a few times do these compliments really help them, and the most common answer is "during performance reviews and promotion reviews, it makes a difference".

Keep giving away the chocolates or gifts, but do not discard the power of the pen of compliments.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:15 am
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Originally Posted by yannerd
I had an interesting chat with an FA on my last flight. She gave some interesting insights into how Cathay treats it's MPC members. Her thoughts were that Cathay goes out of it's way to retain DMs and DMs only, anyone else seems to be inconsequential.
By cutting away DM benefits? That's some insight on how Cathay is doing all it can to retain DMs....
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:16 am
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Originally Posted by G-CIVC
But most of the time, the ISMs offer them themselves. I think it is more about how doing this is not equitable at all - just because one is DM doesnt mean one should get something not within their paid class of service.
Honestly if I know the ISM is doing so to another DM I'll definitely file a complaint form against him/her after my flight... For sure, no room for negotiation, for

- Misappropriation of company's asset as a shareholder
- Discrimination of passengers as a DM
- Failing to control a passenger and letting him/her to mess up the order of the cabin as a passenger

And that passenger for messing up the order of the cabin as well

But if I'm in bad mood I foresee that I'd be more likely to start an onboard argument right in front of that another DM, follow by a complaint letter to CX
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 10:43 am
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Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666
Not sure which ISM told you that compliments don't mean anything. In the numerous times I write compliments, the crews are overjoyed (including ground crews, when I also offered to write them compliments, they are overjoyed). I asked a few times do these compliments really help them, and the most common answer is "during performance reviews and promotion reviews, it makes a difference".

Keep giving away the chocolates or gifts, but do not discard the power of the pen of compliments.
Perhaps that's just a difference in opinion. I am happy to write comment cards, it doesn't really cost me anything but if it's not appreciated, I'm not going to waste my time.

Originally Posted by Cathay Dragon 666
By cutting away DM benefits? That's some insight on how Cathay is doing all it can to retain DMs....
I didn't say that they are giving DMs more, I'm just saying that unless you're a DM, you're really not considered a valuable customer.

It makes the slog up to GO almost not worth it.

Originally Posted by sscywong
Honestly if I know the ISM is doing so to another DM I'll definitely file a complaint form against him/her after my flight... For sure, no room for negotiation, for

- Misappropriation of company's asset as a shareholder
- Discrimination of passengers as a DM
- Failing to control a passenger and letting him/her to mess up the order of the cabin as a passenger

And that passenger for messing up the order of the cabin as well

But if I'm in bad mood I foresee that I'd be more likely to start an onboard argument right in front of that another DM, follow by a complaint letter to CX
On the flip side, would you accept the food/amenities from F when flying J because you're a valued DM? Or would you still complain if you were offered the same as the other DM?
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 12:10 pm
  #98  
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Originally Posted by yannerd
......

I've always debated doing this. I know North American carriers are happy to receive gifts like chocolates and I do give them sometimes but I always have reservations about doing the same for crews on Asian carriers. I didn't really think that crews from Asian carriers actually like gifts from passengers. It's kind of reminiscent of something like my grandma giving fruit or something as a gift and you can see the the other person appearing to accept it happily but as soon as my grandma leaves you know they're just going to throw it away. Maybe it's just the Hong Konger in me that's pragmatic.

The issue with the chocolates for example, is that it makes no sense to buy things at the airport to give to a crew as thanks. It can be perceived that you are using it as "incentive" for more attentive service.

I've had discussions with captains and CX ISMs, AC SDs etc about this on the very few occasions where I gave a gift.

This was a very long flight and the service was impeccable (and I'm just a plain old paid J...sure OWE, but who cares).

So I asked the ISM to check what was available onboard for purchase. Then I asked if there were any gift cards. She gave me my purchases, I wrote out the cards and presented to her, saying this was for everyone.

I did not see it as my grandma's fruit gift but I can understand that others may.

I know that neither the captain or the ISM and cabin crews had ANY expectation and it seems they enjoyed their treats, based on my chat with them.

I know very well a gift is not expected and well, my mom was of a different era and her lectures to me were:

"Never go anywhere empty-handed and always write a thank-you note."

Not really the modern world nor always applicable when flying, but still.
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Old Jun 13, 2017, 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by yannerd
On a similar note, she did mention that Hong Kongers are the worst flyers of any group. They're incredibly demanding and still expect to be treated like royalty when flying CX.
Depends...some crew actually think its south of HK....about 3.5hrs down...hehehe

Originally Posted by yannerd
What's also interesting is that in her opinion, positive comment cards don't mean anything nor help with promotions and such but negative comment cards will get the crew members an immediate talking to from management.
Well it's taken in consideration from what I heard but not really something that will get them promoted or anything CX has also stopped giving them a copy of the comment forms (they used to scan and email them from what I understand) now its more like just a summary.
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Old Jun 14, 2017, 9:53 am
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Originally Posted by yannerd
I've always debated doing this. I know North American carriers are happy to receive gifts like chocolates and I do give them sometimes but I always have reservations about doing the same for crews on Asian carriers. I didn't really think that crews from Asian carriers actually like gifts from passengers. It's kind of reminiscent of something like my grandma giving fruit or something as a gift and you can see the the other person appearing to accept it happily but as soon as my grandma leaves you know they're just going to throw it away. Maybe it's just the Hong Konger in me that's pragmatic.
I do this from time to time on long-haul CX, and the crews always seem to really appreciate it.
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Old Jun 14, 2017, 10:32 am
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Originally Posted by yannerd
On the flip side, would you accept the food/amenities from F when flying J because you're a valued DM? Or would you still complain if you were offered the same as the other DM?
1. I never request nor being offered cross class amenities / food / whatever as DM

2. The one and only time I was offered F lunch in J was when I was GO flying a D fare ticket. The meal choices were lamb (which I don't eat), fish and forgot what it was (where I strongly not prefer it, should be like something super spicy or extremely heavily flavoured). I told the FP that I'd choose to skip the entree after few minutes of consideration. Then after confirming that there's excess fish entree in F FP provided me with the fish entree from F

3. Yes, as I won't take it. I'll even file one more "charge" against the ISM as (s)he tries to bribe me (technically speaking that's bribery)


Originally Posted by 24left
The issue with the chocolates for example, is that it makes no sense to buy things at the airport to give to a crew as thanks. It can be perceived that you are using it as "incentive" for more attentive service.

I've had discussions with captains and CX ISMs, AC SDs etc about this on the very few occasions where I gave a gift.

This was a very long flight and the service was impeccable (and I'm just a plain old paid J...sure OWE, but who cares).

So I asked the ISM to check what was available onboard for purchase. Then I asked if there were any gift cards. She gave me my purchases, I wrote out the cards and presented to her, saying this was for everyone.

I did not see it as my grandma's fruit gift but I can understand that others may.

I know that neither the captain or the ISM and cabin crews had ANY expectation and it seems they enjoyed their treats, based on my chat with them.

I know very well a gift is not expected and well, my mom was of a different era and her lectures to me were:

"Never go anywhere empty-handed and always write a thank-you note."

Not really the modern world nor always applicable when flying, but still.
I tried to do so once when I was extremely sick on both leg of my flight (ex-HKG was due to slight cold... ex-PRC was due to serious dizzy after client drinks + cold got serious) where so happen both were operated by the same team of crew. The team took really good care of me (offered me super lemon-heavy lemon tea to relief my sickness) and I tried to buy them chocolates on board. The ISM refused to take it and simply asked me to write a positive comment letter for the team... Of course I did so right afterwards

Anyway...
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Old Jun 14, 2017, 11:05 am
  #102  
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Originally Posted by sscywong
....I tried to do so once when I was extremely sick on both leg of my flight (ex-HKG was due to slight cold... ex-PRC was due to serious dizzy after client drinks + cold got serious) where so happen both were operated by the same team of crew. The team took really good care of me (offered me super lemon-heavy lemon tea to relief my sickness) and I tried to buy them chocolates on board. The ISM refused to take it and simply asked me to write a positive comment letter for the team... Of course I did so right afterwards

Anyway...
That is so nice that they did that for you.

The ISM on my flight was graciously adamant about not wanting a thank you gift from me. I told her I understood and that I know there is no expectation on the part of the crew. I also said, this is a very long flight, your team works hard and I would like to say thank you. I asked for the first names of the cabin crew so I could correctly list them in my compliment letter, as well as on the card I wrote that accompanied the chocolates.

As for the topic of ugly DMs....I would hopefully think that I am not version 2 of these people, an ugly OWE, AAEXP, AC SE...
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Old Jun 14, 2017, 7:32 pm
  #103  
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Do you ever tip anyone
Originally Posted by sscywong
1. I never request nor being offered cross class amenities / food / whatever as DM

2. The one and only time I was offered F lunch in J was when I was GO flying a D fare ticket. The meal choices were lamb (which I don't eat), fish and forgot what it was (where I strongly not prefer it, should be like something super spicy or extremely heavily flavoured). I told the FP that I'd choose to skip the entree after few minutes of consideration. Then after confirming that there's excess fish entree in F FP provided me with the fish entree from F

3. Yes, as I won't take it. I'll even file one more "charge" against the ISM as (s)he tries to bribe me (technically speaking that's bribery)




I tried to do so once when I was extremely sick on both leg of my flight (ex-HKG was due to slight cold... ex-PRC was due to serious dizzy after client drinks + cold got serious) where so happen both were operated by the same team of crew. The team took really good care of me (offered me super lemon-heavy lemon tea to relief my sickness) and I tried to buy them chocolates on board. The ISM refused to take it and simply asked me to write a positive comment letter for the team... Of course I did so right afterwards

Anyway...
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Old Jun 15, 2017, 9:20 am
  #104  
 
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Originally Posted by kaka
Do you ever tip anyone
Never on board

Other places? Yes though rarely (except in N. America where I simply can't skip the tips)

BUT

That's my discretion to tips them. In your suggested scenario I assume what you were saying is some DYKWIA DM asked for something cross class, I complain, and ISM tried to offer me the same cross class product and ask me not to make the complain... I'll call this bribery
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Old Jun 15, 2017, 9:47 am
  #105  
 
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It's interesting to read about requesting food from a higher class - in the years as a GO/DM one thing I've done quite frequently is ask for food from a lower class ...

I often fly J and there's nothing I like (I don't eat seafood and I hate the beef in J) ... so at times I've asked for what's available in Y. A few times they forgot to take my order ahead of time so the only main course left was the fish/prawns.

In my recent flights on F, there was nothing I wanted on the menu. Again, I don't eat seafood (which includes caviar / lobster / kaiseki ...) and on a few occasions I've asked if there were leftovers from J, preferably chicken or pork. They usually try to plate it nicely for me but sometimes I just tell them to give me the ceramic main course tray from J.

I do ask nicely whenever I want food from another (lower) class and they appear to comply with my requests. Does that count as abusing my DM privileges?
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