Jun 12, 2016, 10:18 pm
Last edit by: Calchas
As of 1 January 2017, CX will interline on separate tickets to their airline partners once again.
to 31 Dec 2016 CX Agents' advisory http://www.cxagents.com/cxa/gc/en_HK/ln2
from 1 Jan 2017 http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...e-tickets.html
Ausbt article: http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...-baggage-rules
http://www.ausbt.com.au/did-oneworld...of-a-nightmare
http://www.ausbt.com.au/oneworld-air...ecting-flights
AA: will not check through separate PNRs (own or partner) https://ssc.aa.com/prmportal_enu/Age...%20Tickets.pdf
MH: still check through two PNRs (own or partner)
CX/KA: check through CX/KA separate PNRs. Will resume checking through to partners starting 1 Jan 2017 http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...e-tickets.html
JL: Will through check. http://www.jal.co.jp/en/info/inter/161003.html
QR: will check through separate PNRs (own or partner) from 01 MAR. https://www.ausbt.com.au/qatar-airways-ditches-oneworld-s-restrictive-baggage-rules
QF: Will check through QF to QF separate PNRs, will not check through partner separate PNRs (from 1 Sep 2016)
BA: Will not check through partner or other airlines' separate PNRs. WIll not check through BA-BA on seperate PNR's (as of 15 Nov 16)
IB: Will check through IB to IB separate PNRs
LA: will not check through separate PNRs (own or partner)
AY: Will check through AY to AY separate PNRs, will not check through partner separate PNRs
to 31 Dec 2016 CX Agents' advisory http://www.cxagents.com/cxa/gc/en_HK/ln2
from 1 Jan 2017 http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...e-tickets.html
Ausbt article: http://www.ausbt.com.au/cathay-pacif...-baggage-rules
http://www.ausbt.com.au/did-oneworld...of-a-nightmare
http://www.ausbt.com.au/oneworld-air...ecting-flights
AA: will not check through separate PNRs (own or partner) https://ssc.aa.com/prmportal_enu/Age...%20Tickets.pdf
MH: still check through two PNRs (own or partner)
CX/KA: check through CX/KA separate PNRs. Will resume checking through to partners starting 1 Jan 2017 http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...e-tickets.html
JL: Will through check. http://www.jal.co.jp/en/info/inter/161003.html
QR: will check through separate PNRs (own or partner) from 01 MAR. https://www.ausbt.com.au/qatar-airways-ditches-oneworld-s-restrictive-baggage-rules
QF: Will check through QF to QF separate PNRs, will not check through partner separate PNRs (from 1 Sep 2016)
BA: Will not check through partner or other airlines' separate PNRs. WIll not check through BA-BA on seperate PNR's (as of 15 Nov 16)
IB: Will check through IB to IB separate PNRs
LA: will not check through separate PNRs (own or partner)
AY: Will check through AY to AY separate PNRs, will not check through partner separate PNRs
CX WILL interline to other oneworld airlines if travelling on separate PNRs
Jun 18, 2016, 12:12 am
#61
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,775
Jun 18, 2016, 2:02 am
#62
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
I don't think there can be a reasonable compensation structure. It's not just a cost issue - it's a revenue issue as well. On a single PNR two airlines share the revenue. When you have two separate PNRs, each airline gets to keep the revenue to themselves. So when you check-through two separate PNRs, is it reasonable to expect airlines to share expenses (when things go wrong) but not share the revenue (when things go right)?
Even if airlines were willing to share the revenue (as if it is a single PNR) then there's another problem: revenue forecasting. On a single PNR each airline knows its share of revenue. On two separate PNRs, each get to keep their own revenue. If airlines were to do the above, that means on a separate PNR, an airline won't know whether it has to split the revenue until a passenger checks-in. That's a nightmare for revenue forecasting purposes.
...
Btw, I read various forums and the focus is on lost/delayed baggage but I find the timing interesting that OW updates the policy just before EC clarifies that under EC 261, a compensation is due if a passenger miss the second flight because of late arrival of the first flight. Personally i think that is a bigger issue. I raised this issue in the AY forum. People over there say two separate PNRs are two separate PNRs for EC 261 purposes even if an airlines checks you through but i wonder if EC agrees with that. I mean airlines check you through previously and I cannot believe cost associated with lost/delayed baggage alone is enough to scrap this benefit (when one has two PNRs on two different airlines). There has to be more to it ...
Even if airlines were willing to share the revenue (as if it is a single PNR) then there's another problem: revenue forecasting. On a single PNR each airline knows its share of revenue. On two separate PNRs, each get to keep their own revenue. If airlines were to do the above, that means on a separate PNR, an airline won't know whether it has to split the revenue until a passenger checks-in. That's a nightmare for revenue forecasting purposes.
...
Btw, I read various forums and the focus is on lost/delayed baggage but I find the timing interesting that OW updates the policy just before EC clarifies that under EC 261, a compensation is due if a passenger miss the second flight because of late arrival of the first flight. Personally i think that is a bigger issue. I raised this issue in the AY forum. People over there say two separate PNRs are two separate PNRs for EC 261 purposes even if an airlines checks you through but i wonder if EC agrees with that. I mean airlines check you through previously and I cannot believe cost associated with lost/delayed baggage alone is enough to scrap this benefit (when one has two PNRs on two different airlines). There has to be more to it ...
I still suspect that BA is behind the "push" to implement, in part because they have been hit the most by EC261 (and incoming baggage issues). I think they will continue to take a lot of "heat" from their elite members since it is almost impossible to combine award segments with revenue segments. PERHAPS they should consider permitting BA to BA flight through checks.
Happy wandering
Fred
Jun 18, 2016, 2:13 am
#63
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,775
I still suspect that BA is behind the "push" to implement, in part because they have been hit the most by EC261 (and incoming baggage issues). I think they will continue to take a lot of "heat" from their elite members since it is almost impossible to combine award segments with revenue segments. PERHAPS they should consider permitting BA to BA flight through checks.
Unbundling is also another probable BA factor given HBO and Europe meals - I just take this move as another unbundling initiative even for non-EU OW members like CX and QF.
Jun 18, 2016, 4:16 am
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
In other posts it has been quite clear that a PNR record may contain MORE than one ticket. While I understand the position of revenue/expense on separate PNRs, the airlines really needed to say separate TICKETs - even if contained within a single PNR. This, I don't think they can politically wear.
I still suspect that BA is behind the "push" to implement, in part because they have been hit the most by EC261 (and incoming baggage issues). I think they will continue to take a lot of "heat" from their elite members since it is almost impossible to combine award segments with revenue segments. PERHAPS they should consider permitting BA to BA flight through checks.
Happy wandering
Fred
I still suspect that BA is behind the "push" to implement, in part because they have been hit the most by EC261 (and incoming baggage issues). I think they will continue to take a lot of "heat" from their elite members since it is almost impossible to combine award segments with revenue segments. PERHAPS they should consider permitting BA to BA flight through checks.
Happy wandering
Fred
The baggage system is designed with the (incorrect) assumption that one PNR = one ticket (or one ticket booklet).
Jun 18, 2016, 7:58 am
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,545
I still suspect that BA is behind the "push" to implement, in part because they have been hit the most by EC261 (and incoming baggage issues). I think they will continue to take a lot of "heat" from their elite members since it is almost impossible to combine award segments with revenue segments. PERHAPS they should consider permitting BA to BA flight through checks.
Happy wandering
Fred
Happy wandering
Fred
Jun 18, 2016, 11:42 am
#68
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 328
Ah ha..... got it. It was a little cryptic but the D scenario seems to cover it.
d. For connections between:
CX and CX,
CX and KA,
KA and CX,
KA and KA in two tickets for the journey in two different PNRs,
e.g.:
FOC-HKG - KA tkt nbr xxxxx123
HKG-JFK - CX tkt nbr xxxxx124
Two separate PNRs : AB12CD and EF34GH
Coverd as part of through check in obligation
d. For connections between:
CX and CX,
CX and KA,
KA and CX,
KA and KA in two tickets for the journey in two different PNRs,
e.g.:
FOC-HKG - KA tkt nbr xxxxx123
HKG-JFK - CX tkt nbr xxxxx124
Two separate PNRs : AB12CD and EF34GH
Coverd as part of through check in obligation
Jun 18, 2016, 6:53 pm
#69
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
Jun 22, 2016, 4:21 am
#70
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond, BA Gold, *A Silver, Accor Diamond
Posts: 345
The way round this refusal to interline seemed to be to use a TA to buy two tickets (even if on different Oneworld airlines) and include them in one PNR. Even the good value Vantage Pass business class fares combined with a cheap BA Eurotraveller ticket should work and allow baggage interlining if it's on one PNR.
"Should work" but it doesn't because I can buy my economy class BA Eurotraveller connecting ticket for half the price my TA can buy it for. So I have to pay my TA a fee to charge me twice the price of the ticket I can buy myself. But if I don't do that I can't interline baggage from HKG-AMS-LHR because the TA can't add my BA ticket into the CX itinerary if I buy it myself.
Could be a BA system glitch or maybe they really do sell tickets 50% cheaper to the public than to TAs.
Good news though: it's $25,000 return to London on CX (but you need to buy two return tickets and one of them can't go to London if you've already done that on the first flight on the Vantage pass) and also $25,000 return to London on Virgin. No need to interline, just go direct. Extra (and superflous) MPC points aren't worth the extra cost and hassle (at least for me). Less revenue for CX and BA but that's their concern rather than mine because they've made life difficult for we frugal business class passengers (aka cheapskates!).
"Should work" but it doesn't because I can buy my economy class BA Eurotraveller connecting ticket for half the price my TA can buy it for. So I have to pay my TA a fee to charge me twice the price of the ticket I can buy myself. But if I don't do that I can't interline baggage from HKG-AMS-LHR because the TA can't add my BA ticket into the CX itinerary if I buy it myself.
Could be a BA system glitch or maybe they really do sell tickets 50% cheaper to the public than to TAs.
Good news though: it's $25,000 return to London on CX (but you need to buy two return tickets and one of them can't go to London if you've already done that on the first flight on the Vantage pass) and also $25,000 return to London on Virgin. No need to interline, just go direct. Extra (and superflous) MPC points aren't worth the extra cost and hassle (at least for me). Less revenue for CX and BA but that's their concern rather than mine because they've made life difficult for we frugal business class passengers (aka cheapskates!).
Jun 22, 2016, 2:07 pm
#72
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: EWR
Programs: CX Green | UA Silver | Marriott Lifetime Platinum | Hyatt Globalist | Hilton Gold | AA EXP
Posts: 813
The way round this refusal to interline seemed to be to use a TA to buy two tickets (even if on different Oneworld airlines) and include them in one PNR. Even the good value Vantage Pass business class fares combined with a cheap BA Eurotraveller ticket should work and allow baggage interlining if it's on one PNR.
1) since this is flyertalk, presumably the main reason people in this forum have two PNRs because we're mixing redemption and paid ticket. Can/will TA merge your PNRs if u redeem online/through MPC and buy the paid ticket from TA?
2) For 2 paid tickets, if you buy one now and one much later (say due to change of plan) from the same TA, can they still merge it? I guess I'm wondering if a TA can add a second ticket to the PNR months after it is issued.
Jun 22, 2016, 6:49 pm
#73
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: China
Posts: 1,550
A couple of questions on this:
1) since this is flyertalk, presumably the main reason people in this forum have two PNRs because we're mixing redemption and paid ticket. Can/will TA merge your PNRs if u redeem online/through MPC and buy the paid ticket from TA?
2) For 2 paid tickets, if you buy one now and one much later (say due to change of plan) from the same TA, can they still merge it? I guess I'm wondering if a TA can add a second ticket to the PNR months after it is issued.
1) since this is flyertalk, presumably the main reason people in this forum have two PNRs because we're mixing redemption and paid ticket. Can/will TA merge your PNRs if u redeem online/through MPC and buy the paid ticket from TA?
2) For 2 paid tickets, if you buy one now and one much later (say due to change of plan) from the same TA, can they still merge it? I guess I'm wondering if a TA can add a second ticket to the PNR months after it is issued.
2. Possible, but you need a TA who knows what they are doing/ is incentivised to do so.
Jun 22, 2016, 9:48 pm
#74
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Singapore, Hong Kong
Programs: CX MPC, EY Guest
Posts: 31
16JUN - Flew from HKG to TPE on CX (Y class) and from TPE to KUL (J class) on two separate PNRs. Checked-in at Hong Kong station and the agent said that Cathay will not through check-in bags not on the same reservation
Jun 22, 2016, 9:50 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: CX Green, QF Platinum, BAEC Silver, Hyatt Glob
Posts: 10,780
If it is CX to CX, they should have checked through according to their rules.