Jun 19, 2017, 9:34 pm
Last edit by: ernestnywang
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards Wiki v0.1
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
Rules
1. You need two non CX/KA carriers
2. You are allowed 5 stopovers, 2 transits (<=24hrs) and 2 open jaws. You can use your stopover allowance as a transit, possibly by asking for it to be ticketed as such (extra taxes?). [Using stopover for transit is no longer possible since 2021/22?]
3. The open-jaw points do not count towards your stopover allowance. Neither does the final city on the itinerary
4. You must start and end in the same country.
5. To determine the miles required, add up all flight sectors on your itinerary and look up the award chart (ignore the distance between open-jaw points). gcmap.com is handy, though best to go via asiamiles' calculator.
6. Co-terminals (NRT/HND, LHR/LCY) do not count as an open-jaw (takes up 1 stopover/transit allowance).
If an itinerary clears the above, it is valid, though you may have to argue a lot back and forth. Keep your patience suit on and and keep referring to the terms & conditions ("What in the T&Cs makes this invalid" tends to work).
For the examples below, x=transit, o=stopover, and capitalized alphabets represent airports.
Some valid routings that have commonly been pushed back on
1. "You cannot go through the start, destination, or enroute point more than once". A-oB-oA-oC-oD-A is a valid itinerary.
2. "An open-jaw point is a stopover". A-oB-oC-D//E-oF-G//H-oI-oJ-A is valid, as is A-oB-xC-D//E-oF-G//H-xI-oJ-oK-oL-A.
Other tips
1. Tickets are valid for 1 year from the date of issuance. Potentially a pain when planning that dream RTW trip involving LATAM/AA which release seats 330 days out, that you're trying to tee-in with CX award seats released a year out.
2. A combination of BA/AA/LATAM/QF sites works well to research availability (look for saver availability)
3. You can go crazy on the routings- A-oB-A//C-oD-C//E-A is fine if A,B,E are in country/Region # 1, and, C,D are at the other end of the world.
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Jun 6, 2015, 6:19 pm
#31
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,170
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
lcpteck- just a point of note- the itin is:
SIN-xHKG-KIX//NRT-xORD-DCA//JFK-oLHR-oATH-oDOH-SIN
KIX and DCA are NOT stopovers ...but parts of your 2 open jaw allowances (it's the KIX-NRT and the DCA-JFK that make up an open-jaw each).
So you have 2 transits, 3 stopovers and 2 open jaws.
You can add 2 more stopovers (or 2 transits, as you can use the stopover allowance as a transit- might help for availability- ask them to ticket the additional ones as stopovers if they push back).
No clue about the QR-QR issue though..Also, all my itineraries (admittedly more convoluted than yours) have had a fair bit of push back from the MPC, so be prepared to be firm and *very* patient in arguing back ('where does it say in the T&Cs that XXX is not allowed') - Good Luck!
SIN-xHKG-KIX//NRT-xORD-DCA//JFK-oLHR-oATH-oDOH-SIN
KIX and DCA are NOT stopovers ...but parts of your 2 open jaw allowances (it's the KIX-NRT and the DCA-JFK that make up an open-jaw each).
So you have 2 transits, 3 stopovers and 2 open jaws.
You can add 2 more stopovers (or 2 transits, as you can use the stopover allowance as a transit- might help for availability- ask them to ticket the additional ones as stopovers if they push back).
No clue about the QR-QR issue though..Also, all my itineraries (admittedly more convoluted than yours) have had a fair bit of push back from the MPC, so be prepared to be firm and *very* patient in arguing back ('where does it say in the T&Cs that XXX is not allowed') - Good Luck!
Last edited by jagmeets; Jun 6, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Jun 6, 2015, 8:55 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,819
lcpteck- just a point of note- the itin is:
SIN-xHKG-KIX//NRT-xORD-DCA//JFK-oLHR-oATH-oDOH-SIN
KIX and DCA are NOT stopovers ...but parts of your 2 open jaw allowances (it's the KIX-NRT and the DCA-JFK that make up an open-jaw each).
So you have 2 transits, 3 stopovers and 2 open jaws.
You can add 2 more stopovers (or 2 transits, as you can use the stopover allowance as a transit- might help for availability- ask them to ticket the addition ones as stopovers if they push back).
No clue about the QR-QR issue though..Also, all my itineraries (admittedly more convoluted than yours) have had a fair bit of push back from the MPC, so be prepared to be firm and *very* patient in arguing back ('where does it say in the T&Cs that XXX is not allowed') - Good Luck!
SIN-xHKG-KIX//NRT-xORD-DCA//JFK-oLHR-oATH-oDOH-SIN
KIX and DCA are NOT stopovers ...but parts of your 2 open jaw allowances (it's the KIX-NRT and the DCA-JFK that make up an open-jaw each).
So you have 2 transits, 3 stopovers and 2 open jaws.
You can add 2 more stopovers (or 2 transits, as you can use the stopover allowance as a transit- might help for availability- ask them to ticket the addition ones as stopovers if they push back).
No clue about the QR-QR issue though..Also, all my itineraries (admittedly more convoluted than yours) have had a fair bit of push back from the MPC, so be prepared to be firm and *very* patient in arguing back ('where does it say in the T&Cs that XXX is not allowed') - Good Luck!
Last edited by lcpteck; Jun 6, 2015 at 9:00 pm
Jun 6, 2015, 10:24 pm
#33
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,170
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
Transit: upto 24hrs (not sure how it works for intra US- not that you have any). Stopover can be of any length..as can be the 'gap' between the 2 cities in an open jaw. This subject to the ticket validity- which is 1yr from the date of issue (not a problem normally, as all sectors would be within 1y..but just in case you want to change a date to one later on, once availability opens up).
The 5 stopovers allowance can be used for transits if needed( ie, you can have >2 stops of less than 24h, with a correspondingly lower number of stopovers- not sure if they will just 'allow' or issue the ticket such that a stopover is less than 24h - it can be, just that you'd have to pay the taxes etc.)
The 5 stopovers allowance can be used for transits if needed( ie, you can have >2 stops of less than 24h, with a correspondingly lower number of stopovers- not sure if they will just 'allow' or issue the ticket such that a stopover is less than 24h - it can be, just that you'd have to pay the taxes etc.)
Jun 6, 2015, 10:27 pm
#34
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,799
Ah I understand what you mean now. But I wonder how long of a period can I stay during a transit and a stopover? My assumption of a transit is that it have to be lesser than 24 hours while a stopover can be more? Or can I use the transit to explore the city for a few days just like a stopover?
Jun 7, 2015, 7:58 am
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond / SQ Gold / Bonvoy Platinum / Hyatt Globalist / Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,098
I've been unable to book ATH-DOH-HKG or ATH-DOH-SIN or ATH-DOH-BKK with DOH as a transit.
It's unbookable even with wide availability (on BA.com) and CX tells me they are both bookable separately but not together.
Strangely, for ATH-DOH-HKG, CX won't let me book the DOH-HKG leg whether or not it is on CX or QR if it's a transit. CX will let me book the DOH-HKG leg on CX if I stay >24 hours in DOH.
This happens a lot with QR-QR, percysmith and I have both encountered problems with it. I've been able to redeem the following successfully:
HKG-DOH-CPH
HKG-DOH-NBO
HKG-DOH-MIA
It's unbookable even with wide availability (on BA.com) and CX tells me they are both bookable separately but not together.
Strangely, for ATH-DOH-HKG, CX won't let me book the DOH-HKG leg whether or not it is on CX or QR if it's a transit. CX will let me book the DOH-HKG leg on CX if I stay >24 hours in DOH.
This happens a lot with QR-QR, percysmith and I have both encountered problems with it. I've been able to redeem the following successfully:
HKG-DOH-CPH
HKG-DOH-NBO
HKG-DOH-MIA
Last edited by Psychiatrist; Jun 7, 2015 at 8:04 am
Jun 7, 2015, 8:09 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond / SQ Gold / Bonvoy Platinum / Hyatt Globalist / Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,098
Oh and to share, I have just redeemed the following for 160,000 Asia Miles in J:
HKG-JFK (CX)
JFK-LIM-LPB-LIM-JFK (LA)
JFK-BOS (AA)
JFK-HKG (CX)
stopover in LPB (La Paz, Bolivia)
transfers in JFK, LIM, LIM (not sure which one was counted as a stopover)
open jaw BOS//JFK
Which makes this good value as HKG-JFK-HKG itself is 145,000 Asia Miles in J.
The additional 15,000 Asia Miles takes me from JFK to Bolivia and back in J, which costs quite a bit on AA (via MIA) or on LA (via LIM). I quite like LA's J - they do good soups, beef and wine.
The JFK-BOS is to comply with the "2 non-CX/KA airline" rule while adding an open jaw as I had to stay within the 20,001 - 25,000 mile award zone. I would have redeemed JFK-BOS-JFK if I could!
HKG-JFK (CX)
JFK-LIM-LPB-LIM-JFK (LA)
JFK-BOS (AA)
JFK-HKG (CX)
stopover in LPB (La Paz, Bolivia)
transfers in JFK, LIM, LIM (not sure which one was counted as a stopover)
open jaw BOS//JFK
Which makes this good value as HKG-JFK-HKG itself is 145,000 Asia Miles in J.
The additional 15,000 Asia Miles takes me from JFK to Bolivia and back in J, which costs quite a bit on AA (via MIA) or on LA (via LIM). I quite like LA's J - they do good soups, beef and wine.
The JFK-BOS is to comply with the "2 non-CX/KA airline" rule while adding an open jaw as I had to stay within the 20,001 - 25,000 mile award zone. I would have redeemed JFK-BOS-JFK if I could!
Jun 7, 2015, 8:56 am
#37
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,819
Thanks for the info guys.
I would probably make a stopover at DOH as well since I've never been there hehe.. Still in the early planning stages for next year's trip.
I would probably make a stopover at DOH as well since I've never been there hehe.. Still in the early planning stages for next year's trip.
Jun 7, 2015, 10:55 am
#38
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Programs: HGP Globalist, SPG P100, Hilton Dia
Posts: 425
Jun 7, 2015, 11:01 am
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond / SQ Gold / Bonvoy Platinum / Hyatt Globalist / Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,098
I've flown LAN to Chile and Peru before (2 separate trips), all every easy to redeem.
According to my eticket they charged HK$2136 for tax/surcharge. I have yet to check my credit card bill.
Jun 8, 2015, 1:44 am
#40
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11A501 Safari/9537.53)
Im debating between
Cdg-xhel-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//txl-ory
Or
Dxb-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-hkg//kix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//doh-dxb
Mainly dueing to whether i can get cdg-auh in F or not (ey f using ey miles... Partly leftover from additional discount earlier on)
Im debating between
Cdg-xhel-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//txl-ory
Or
Dxb-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-hkg//kix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//doh-dxb
Mainly dueing to whether i can get cdg-auh in F or not (ey f using ey miles... Partly leftover from additional discount earlier on)
Jun 8, 2015, 1:51 am
#41
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11A501 Safari/9537.53)
If seeing the ey miles as sunk cost, (tbh i had to take out 18000 miles to top up tho i could hv done w less n do a cnp- not bad value for "buying" 10000 miles using 60 gbp!)
115000 for the ex cdg ticket, w 2.5 trips to kix
95000(+18000) for the ex dxb ticket, w3 trips to kix, and cdg-dxb via auh w ey f and a limo ride
I guess taxes are a wash n are equally high...
If seeing the ey miles as sunk cost, (tbh i had to take out 18000 miles to top up tho i could hv done w less n do a cnp- not bad value for "buying" 10000 miles using 60 gbp!)
115000 for the ex cdg ticket, w 2.5 trips to kix
95000(+18000) for the ex dxb ticket, w3 trips to kix, and cdg-dxb via auh w ey f and a limo ride
I guess taxes are a wash n are equally high...
Jun 9, 2015, 11:31 pm
#42
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Marriott & SPG Plat, HH Diamond, Accor Plat, ex-Fairmont Plat, ex-Swissotel Eleva
Posts: 710
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_2 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11A501 Safari/9537.53)
Im debating between
Cdg-xhel-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//txl-ory
Or
Dxb-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-hkg//kix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//doh-dxb
Mainly dueing to whether i can get cdg-auh in F or not (ey f using ey miles... Partly leftover from additional discount earlier on)
Im debating between
Cdg-xhel-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//txl-ory
Or
Dxb-ohkg-okix-ohkg-okix-hkg//kix-ohkg-xkix/itm-xngs-itm//doh-dxb
Mainly dueing to whether i can get cdg-auh in F or not (ey f using ey miles... Partly leftover from additional discount earlier on)
But can anyone confirm my views?
Since we are on it, can we like do, "ohkg-okix-ohkg-xnrt-okix", and appear to not repeat the sectors (if we indeed cannot repeat sectors), even though it is still hkg to kix.
Jun 10, 2015, 12:00 am
#43
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NYC/SIN
Programs: CX DM, SQ KF
Posts: 2,170
oneworld Multi-Carrier Awards - sharing ideas
You can repeat sectors..perthtraveller's itin up-thread as an example..but be ready for a lot of push back & verse yourself very well with the T&Cs to throw the book at MPC/AM/ticketing staff..
Adding a transit along the way will likely make dealing with them easier.
Adding a transit along the way will likely make dealing with them easier.
Jun 10, 2015, 2:11 am
#44
Suspended
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HKG
Programs: A3, TK *G; JL JGC; SPG,Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,952
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Nrt-hkg-kix//ngo-hkg-kix-hkg-xhnd-xkix-hkg//vvo-nrt
J, all flown
Nrt-hkg-kix//ngo-hkg-kix-hkg-xhnd-xkix-hkg//vvo-nrt
J, all flown
Jun 10, 2015, 3:21 am
#45
Join Date: May 2012
Location: SIN
Programs: JL GC | Marriott LT Silver | Global Entry | SQ Silver
Posts: 6,819