percysmith

Yes it's a general whinge about how we in HK need to pay more miles and fees than our US counterparts for the same award seats. As it is a zero-sum game (we are hardly interested in AA awards) March 22nd, 2017 can't come soon enough.

AA_EXP09

I wish the devaluation was next year too...

percysmith

With the tactics VFTW are advocating we won't see the last of grAAber arbitrage til that date.

stephem

This premise (that the US FF program members "steal" the CX premium awards) is a fiction. If CX didnt want the revenue it gets from its relationship with AA, it could change or end it, but it doesn't. The award redemptions are but one part of a larger deal, one that incidentally incents people like me to fly CX on paid business.

Why do I say this is a myth? For several months a few years ago, I commuted between the US and London and ran up a couple million miles on BA. For several years I have taken my family of 5 to Asia in CX business class each year on account of that balance of Avios I had run up. And it was like shooting fish in a barrel to get exactly the flights I wanted for all 5 of us in J. That's because BA (like CX) can actually book the awards a couple of weeks in advance of AA. This year, for the first time, I am booking with AA miles and it's a bit more of a scrum by the time the AA booking window opens. But the reality is that all of the CX FF members who wanted to book had weeks to grab the seats.... and guess what... they didn't! So either the CX members don't have adequate miles or they don't want the seats. The notion that AA members are a scourge that interfere with your ability to redeem in premium cabins is silly, I sense here it's more that just not liking that these AA people have the miles to book awards on "your" airline. That AA awards are cheaper is true, I think it is also true that the average American has a higher FF account balance (and much more opportunity to run up a few hundred thousand miles per year) than people in Asia do. The ratcheting up of award levels at AA will change dynamic a bit, but don't hold your breath folks, there are still plenty of AA flyers who will generate (and/or buy) enough miles to continue to redeem CX premium awards even at the new AA levels.

percysmith

Not true. At least for US/Canada routes more seats gets released in the T-24 to T-36 hours window than the T-360 day window. The fact that AM members can redeem at T-360 days and Avios members at T-354 days is not as meaningful as you make out.

Rather, AA miles are a lot more useful when trying to book seats close-in compared to AM miles:
- no more waitlist for AM miles
- AM one-ways are charged at 70% of one way compared to AA 50%
- free reissues as mentioned by VFTW
- free redeposits (albeit restricted to EXPs)

I sometimes wonder how OW partners charge each other for awards.

CX, QF and BA run distance-based redemption charts. AA runs a region-based chart.

Although airlines can favour their own (e.g. QF and JL not opening any F, but releasing F to its own elites upon request), once they release a seat for partner redemption by and large all partners can access it.

Some charge a lot for it (e.g. Avios for a CX TPAC F award), some charge a lot less (AA...)

But the operating airline can't just ask for what it wants for the award. Since on the revenue side the redemption charts are based on distance, it is not unreasonable to speculate the compensation operating airlines get for award seats are also based on distance.

The operating airline can choose how much it wants to offer at at that distance-based price.

Given recent devaluations with BA and AA I believe the case is the operating carriers want to make the same number of seats available but want more for them. And succeeded.

Daffie

Percy, how about PRC's credit cards earning/transferring to AM? How's the impact?
I'm not familiar with their cards. But I don't suppose they have much (if any) huge sign up bonuses?

percysmith

I think their cards max out at RMB8.33/AM http://www.duocaish.com/credit_card/...d_basic_2.html , and I haven't heard of miles welcome offers so far.

LDVFlyer

Like you, but not you? (You did say you earned most of your AA miles flying BA.)

If you had earned the miles by flying Cathay in paid J, I suppose there would be a greater sense of fairness.

There won't be as many as there are now, hence the desperation evident on the AA board. And, once AA renegotiates its credit card deal with Citi, there will be even less.

stephem

Yeah like me. You didn't read my post very carefully, I didn't say anything about earning AA Miles by flying British Airways. I did earned a lot of British airways miles that way though. What you're missing though is I use the past tense there. I fly Cathay quite frequently in business-class these days. In fact you can say I go out of my way to fly them, including enduring not so great connections in Hong Kong for flights from the west coast of the US to the Middle East. So I'm not so sure about your suggestion that somehow I'm not "entitled" to make redemptions with Cathay Pacific.

I'd also love to hear what you saw in your crystal ball about Citi, I really doubt that is going to happen.

percysmith

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/catha...l#post26186272

AspiringWorldTraveler

Are you implying they will board a flight/check-in and then cancel over the phone while already on the boarding queue, or even seated?

percysmith

I think QRC3288 meant to say "hoarding" (twice) not "boarding".

Anyway letting AA members rebook/reissue without cost to the member whilst penalising AM members doing so (or making things difficult for them - the partner cancellation vs reissue above) is an Unequal Treaty if I ever need a modern-day example. Substitute opium for caviar and krug.

eponymous_coward

Yes, AA should treat their members worse on the fees charged on redeeming awards, something CX has nothing to do with, the fee AA charges (or lack of same) would be identical if it was QF, BA or whatever... so you CX folks can feel better about how you're treated by your airline, who could easily decide to reduce fees if they wanted, and nobody at AA's management would care the slightest.

While we're at it, maybe CX could get rid of free food in coach and complimentary lounge access on shorthaul flights like AA has, too. I mean, it's SO UNEQUAL that you are treated that way when AA people have to suffer worse treatment.

Boy, you probably must HATE AS people. We get unlimited free changes to awards up to 2 months out, and if you are Gold (40,000 miles a year), unlimited changes until departure. I've used this to change CX awards. Plus I get a free stopover on a one-way. Wow, how completely unfair to you!

percysmith

You're misunderstanding my gripe. It's not simply haves vs have nots.

If we're both "buying" the same seats then perhaps it's not too much to ask that CX applies the same charges on AA as it charges its own members for rebookings and reissues and cancellations on CX award seats.

Maybe it's happening - AA could be eating these fees for its members already. But given they don't tell anyone they're doing so, I doubt it.

Even if AA does absorb the fees out of pocket at least it's fairer on those of us who earn and redeem purely on CX (never on AA).

LDVFlyer

You used your BA miles to get premium award tickets for your entire family. If at the time BA miles/rewards were easier to obtain than Cathay miles/rewards, why should someone with Cathay miles NOT think that is unfair? Unfairness, not entitlement.

Doug Parker indirectly addressed the issue during the last earnings call, with respect to a question about why AA was not banking as much of its fuel savings as United and Delta. One of the differences he cited was that AA had not renegotiated its credit card deal with Citi. That would be the deal that gave Citi all the cheap miles it has been giving away to churners and MS'ers.

On that note, the dAArk secret that your original post on the subject did not address is that a significant number of the posts in the Cathay Awards thread on the AA forum are made by grAAbbers who got the miles from churning credit cards and manufactured spend. I am not sure how aware members of Cathay's program are of that. Heck, I wish I wasn't aware of that because knowing that cheapens the Cathay product and makes a mockery of the conventional way of earning miles.