Rumor: MPC will go way of PPS

Old May 13, 2015, 6:30 am
  #676  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,495
One good option for CX would be to triple the number of AMs required for an F award on CX. Then no MPO would want to redeem F and complain about lack of availability.
brunos is offline  
Old May 13, 2015, 10:14 am
  #677  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: Marriot Am, MU Pt
Posts: 3,092
Originally Posted by brunos
One good option for CX would be to triple the number of AMs required for an F award on CX. Then no MPO would want to redeem F and complain about lack of availability.
Perfect... so all AA redeemers!

So how's the different from what's going on now?
alphaod is offline  
Old May 13, 2015, 8:29 pm
  #678  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: DTW - Rochester Hills, MI
Programs: Cathay MPC, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Domestic Airline Nobody
Posts: 714
/beginsarcasm

Originally Posted by brunos
One good option for CX would be to triple the number of AMs required for an F award on CX. Then no MPO would want to redeem F and complain about lack of availability.
/endsarcasm
Gongzuokuang is offline  
Old May 13, 2015, 10:36 pm
  #679  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
Has any CX person successfully wasted.... urh... I meant used 220K points for an F seat? Seriously, I wouldn't....
Cathay Boy is offline  
Old May 13, 2015, 11:02 pm
  #680  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
Has any CX person successfully wasted.... urh... I meant used 220K points for an F seat? Seriously, I wouldn't....
You didn't think I paid for this in cash did you?
percysmith is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 7:52 am
  #681  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
Update

I wonder if CX is listening, or reading this thread, or dumb luck. But I admittedly am going to have to eat a little crow here if the current trends continue.

1.) Op-up I have been scoring them at a rate literally unheard of before. It seems like half the flights, if not more, I'm getting op-ups on. I've been op-upped my last 3 flights in a row, and 4/5. And the best part about this is it doesn't seem to matter when I check in. I am getting op-ups when checking in at the airport 90 minutes before departure, even though I skipped OLCI. Whatever the new system is, my op-up rate is definitely benefiting from it.

2.) Seat block. I'll refer to the other thread, but I am encountering situations at outports where seatblock is proactively offered again in EY. Still hit or miss ex-HKG.

3.) On-board recognition. My last few flights I've received the more consistent service standards that were common before the Amadeus switch-over last year. I wonder if things have gotten straightened out with delivering elite status info to the crew. Something clearly went haywire when the Amadeus switch happened but perhaps it's getting better now.

I have absolute voted my displeasure with my wallet. This year - for the first time ever - I am proactively pushing travel spend elsewhere, namely BR, SQ, QR and EK. For the first year in 8 years on CX, they are not getting the majority of my travel spend. I have spent perhaps $15k USD on CX so far YTD and more on competitors. To me, this was practically heresy a few years ago. This year I came around and have put heaps of spend elsewhere.

Assuming the issues above resolve themselves, I really only have two gripes left, albeit the first is still serious.

1.) The premium mileage redemption situation for CX elites and MPC (compared to partners redeeming premium - particular F tix on CX) discussed ad nauseum here. I fall firmly (and selfishly) in the camp of CX should do more to make F and J redemptions available to their own MPCs. Regardless, CX has a decision to make and I've been voting appropriately.

2.) Lounge crowding. #1 to me is more serious, but this is still annoying. If #1 was fixed above and #2 stayed the same I'd probably still wouldn't hesitate to return most of my travel cash spend and mileage earning to CX+MPC/AM.

Unrelated, but another thing that drives me nuts is CX doesn't hold the mini-cabin in J on 77H for CX elites, and window seats in F for CX elites/cash passengers. It would be great if some seats were held back for their own members. Because these seats are frequently snagged by redemption pax booking waaay out.

Last edited by QRC3288; May 14, 2015 at 7:57 am
QRC3288 is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 8:05 am
  #682  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: CX GO (in hibernation mode), AA EXP, SPG GO, HH DM
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by QRC3288
I wonder if CX is listening, or reading this thread, or dumb luck.

1.) Op-up I have been scoring them at a rate literally unheard of before. It seems like half the flights, if not more, I'm getting op-ups on. I've been op-upped my last 3 flights in a row, and 4/5. And the best part about this is it doesn't seem to matter when I check in. I am getting op-ups when checking in at the airport 90 minutes before departure, even though I skipped OLCI. Whatever the new system is, my op-up rate is definitely benefiting from it.

2.) Seat block. I'll refer to the other thread, but I am encountering situations at outports where seatblock is proactively offered again in EY. Still hit or miss ex-HKG.

3.) On-board recognition. My last few flights I've received the more consistent service standards that were common before the Amadeus switch-over last year. I wonder if things have gotten straightened out with delivering elite status info to the crew. Something clearly went haywire when the Amadeus switch happened.
that's awesome to hear.... hoping things have been sorted out. funny thing is that i get better recongintion when flying Y/Y+ vs. flying J and but then again i'm just a GO member so I don't expect service/recognition to be comparable to a DM member.
dek526 is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 8:58 am
  #683  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX Diamond / SQ Gold / Bonvoy Platinum / Hyatt Globalist / Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,098
Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
Has any CX person successfully wasted.... urh... I meant used 220K points for an F seat? Seriously, I wouldn't....
I've redeemed so many tickets I've lost count. Several in F too.

First was F award HKG-FRA-LHR-HKG back in 2006...
Then in the last few years, several F awards for round-the-world CX/BA + domestic AA F

I earn miles rather easily (overseas purchases) and have perhaps 800K miles expiring in the next 3 years. So yes, I have successfully redeemed 200K+ miles for F. What's wrong with that?
Psychiatrist is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 10:21 am
  #684  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
Originally Posted by percysmith
Good point, these are extra miles that we get on our company dime anyway...
Cathay Boy is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 11:34 am
  #685  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,093
Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
I think it's good that each airlines protect their own elites. Being in an alliance has many mutual benefits, but it shouldn't be forced communism. Just because AA is a partner doesn't mean AA has a god-given right to redeem F on CX, especially at significant reduced miles/points. Just like CX shouldn't scorn AA for giving away miles and points either, that's their choice. But I applaud CX for taking the steps to stop partner members from redeeming F cabins, just like I have no problem if AA/BA stops CX members from redeeming their F cabins.
Then they may as well dissolve Oneworld if it's simply every airline for itself. I cannot agree with such thinking, because you may think that's being smart, it will have the opposite effect. The main advantage of OW is its consistency, unlike the gazillion number of exceptions that *A and Skyteam have. Without that, OW would be just as bad as the other two. Customers will cease be loyal, then flight decision becomes a case by case decision as opposed to loyalty driven. Many companies have gone bankrupt because they were laser sharp focus on the short-term gains and because Executive compensations tend to reward these immediate results but that's neither in the best interests of shareholders or customers in the long run.

Cathay's profitability is not tied just to HKG based flyers, there are a lot of non-HKG based customers who are not part of MPC but give their business to CX/KA because they identify with OW. You alienate them, they will dump CX very quickly, which will translate into loss of future business and higher customer acquisition cost. Also, MPC members alone cannot fill all those empty seats that would otherwise go unused. The fact CX can release so many F seats for award suggest they are not expecting to sell a lot of those seats and it's impossible that MPC can fill all of the above even if you forbid partners from claiming it because AM redemption rate is ridiculously high that even MPC members hesitate of using these awards. So the net results is more seats will go empty or give away for free as Op-Ups which are really just wasted. If a customer can reasonably expect to get Op-up very often as someone tried to claim here, what incentive is there to purchase premium cabin? Op-up should not be a frequent event or that customer can expect it happen most of the time. It speaks volume about overbooking and inventory management and that on itself is another problem entirely.


Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
Has any CX person successfully wasted.... urh... I meant used 220K points for an F seat? Seriously, I wouldn't....
The assumption of course is that MPC/AM members much prefer to redeem their F awards on CX, I don't think that's true, not for me anyway. I far prefer JL F over CX F, the overall experience of the former is hands down better than CX, especially if you end up with US based crew, in which case, you may as well be served by prison matrons. The essence of AM awards is to understand its complicated rules and whenever possible, use the OW award chart for distance >10K miles or stick with single partner award chart at the 5K miles each way range. For example, you can do JL+AA combo in First Class award out of LAX to most of China, Taiwan, Korea and Japan for only 155K in F award. If you want to go to HKG, it's doable for 155K using a combo of CX+JL+AA to stay within 14K: SFO-HKG-HND/NRT-SFO/SJC. Even if you don't live near LAX or SFO, position flights within the U.S. to these hubs should be very cheap.


Originally Posted by QRC3288
1.) The premium mileage redemption situation for CX elites and MPC (compared to partners redeeming premium - particular F tix on CX) discussed ad nauseum here. I fall firmly (and selfishly) in the camp of CX should do more to make F and J redemptions available to their own MPCs. Regardless, CX has a decision to make and I've been voting appropriately.
So long as they don't devalue AM any further for the foreseeable future (e.g. by inflating award costs even more), I can live with that. Then again, I don't care much about CX F awards but I know some folks do so if they restrict the availability of CX F awards using partner miles, it will mean I will have more opportunity to trade my AM miles with these people at an extra premium due to the shortage of award supply, fine by me.

Originally Posted by Cathay Boy
I guess I'm thinking more of people only earning BIS miles like me, I don't have the luxury of spending miles with credit card (no US-based CC offers AM miles), so yeah, I guess in your case you have to spend it ASAP.
There are many CC that offer AM miles here, you ought to do your homework a little better.
Guava is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 12:07 pm
  #686  
formerly gemini573
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LAX, HKG, and BKK
Programs: CX Emerald, WOH Globalist, Marriott Platinum, AA Lifetime Platinum, Virtuoso, Prive, STEPS, STARS
Posts: 2,233
If AAdvantage members are upset about not having access to FCL on CX, it looks like they will have more to be upset about in the near future. As I've said before, just wait till Mr Parker and his team get their hands on the FFP. I take it with a grain of salt for now, but you can see the direction they're headed to with that chart.

http://www.milevalue.com/cathay-paci...irlines-miles/

I"m all for CX doing this....taking care of their own passengers first. If I wanted unlimited upgrades on US domestic flights and good redemption rates, I'd bank my miles with AA.
77W_12A is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 3:30 pm
  #687  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
Originally Posted by Guava
Then they may as well dissolve Oneworld if it's simply every airline for itself. I cannot agree with such thinking, because you may think that's being smart, it will have the opposite effect. The main advantage of OW is its consistency, unlike the gazillion number of exceptions that *A and Skyteam have. Without that, OW would be just as bad as the other two. Customers will cease be loyal, then flight decision becomes a case by case decision as opposed to loyalty driven. Many companies have gone bankrupt because they were laser sharp focus on the short-term gains and because Executive compensations tend to reward these immediate results but that's neither in the best interests of shareholders or customers in the long run.

Cathay's profitability is not tied just to HKG based flyers, there are a lot of non-HKG based customers who are not part of MPC but give their business to CX/KA because they identify with OW. You alienate them, they will dump CX very quickly, which will translate into loss of future business and higher customer acquisition cost. Also, MPC members alone cannot fill all those empty seats that would otherwise go unused. The fact CX can release so many F seats for award suggest they are not expecting to sell a lot of those seats and it's impossible that MPC can fill all of the above even if you forbid partners from claiming it because AM redemption rate is ridiculously high that even MPC members hesitate of using these awards. So the net results is more seats will go empty or give away for free as Op-Ups which are really just wasted. If a customer can reasonably expect to get Op-up very often as someone tried to claim here, what incentive is there to purchase premium cabin? Op-up should not be a frequent event or that customer can expect it happen most of the time. It speaks volume about overbooking and inventory management and that on itself is another problem entirely.
I don't think CX joined oneworld to earn AA redemption revenue, but rather attract paying customers.

It probably thinks both are mutually exclusive - an AA passenger can either use (AA) miles to redeem a seat, or pay for it.

CX is trying to reduce the former (if AA doesn't stop them themselves as mentioned in the milevalue post).
percysmith is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 8:54 pm
  #688  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,671
Originally Posted by QRC3288
1.) Op-up I have been scoring them at a rate literally unheard of before. It seems like half the flights, if not more, I'm getting op-ups on. I've been op-upped my last 3 flights in a row, and 4/5. And the best part about this is it doesn't seem to matter when I check in. I am getting op-ups when checking in at the airport 90 minutes before departure, even though I skipped OLCI. Whatever the new system is, my op-up rate is definitely benefiting from it.

...2.) Lounge crowding. #1 to me is more serious, but this is still annoying. If #1 was fixed above and #2 stayed the same I'd probably still wouldn't hesitate to return most of my travel cash spend and mileage earning to CX+MPC/AM.
I think these are more signs that business is really good for CX...
percysmith is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 9:17 pm
  #689  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Originally Posted by QRC3288
I wonder if CX is listening, or reading this thread, or dumb luck. But I admittedly am going to have to eat a little crow here if the current trends continue.

1.) Op-up I have been scoring them at a rate literally unheard of before. It seems like half the flights, if not more, I'm getting op-ups on. I've been op-upped my last 3 flights in a row, and 4/5. And the best part about this is it doesn't seem to matter when I check in. I am getting op-ups when checking in at the airport 90 minutes before departure, even though I skipped OLCI. Whatever the new system is, my op-up rate is definitely benefiting from it.
And I thought 20-25% on some routes was very good...
Which routes do you fly, out of curiosity?
AA_EXP09 is offline  
Old May 14, 2015, 9:43 pm
  #690  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,704
Originally Posted by percysmith
I think these are more signs that business is really good for CX...
to be fair...indeed. Flights seem to be packed these days. However, the change I've noticed from before is I am frequently getting op-upped at the airport despite skipping OLCI. I'm checking in for my flights just 60-120 minutes before departure. For example, last week my "SEC" # on the boarding pass was 200+ but I got op-upped. I recall last month having 300 something (!!) on my SEC #, but got op-upped. This is a change. In the past, IME if my "BN" (the thing before "SEC") was high, it usually meant lower to non-existent chance of op-up.

Originally Posted by AA_EXP09
And I thought 20-25% on some routes was very good...
Which routes do you fly, out of curiosity?
I buy a lot of intra-Asia travel primarily in Y class, sometimes in J (op-ups are usually to PEY or J), and North America mainly in J, sometimes in F (my long-haul op-ups are to F). I've flown to most cities across CX's/KA's network but do multiple flights annually each to PEK, PVG, HGH, SIN, TPE, SFO, JFK, and LAX.
QRC3288 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.