Kachjc

yeah but if they make a lounge only for F passengers it becomes and incredibly large waste of space ( rent) from CX perspective...

each 777 only has 6 F seats CX F cabin is probably the most exclusive
don't know the numbers but approx

LHR-18
CDG-6
ZRH-6
Milan-6
FRA-6
AMS?

JFK/EWR/Vancover hop - 24
Toronoto-none

SFO-12
LAX-24
O-HARE-6
BOS-6?



That is really it

regional flights with F are few

most of above is over estimated as ? routes probably do not have F- so few passengers spread over 18 hours is not an incentive for CX

BA first class seat area wise is like CX J not very exclusive lots of Passengers on each plane
same with LH, these airlines Hubs are huge and CX is nowhere near their scale at HKG , CX does not dominate HKG and hold their home turf aggressively like they do- ( see how CX is basically handing over remaining slots at HKG to HK express- BA/LH were running CX they would be even more aggressive)
smaller airline so less F - fewer connections so F less sustainable so F on few routes and very exclusive due to a stellar J

QR- just do not compare airlines with the Big 3 from that region- if CX and HKG were in the same situation ( government owned- oil benefits etc etc) then it makes sense
the fact that CX still holds its ground in spite of what these carriers have is an embarrassment to them.

since this is just of my head I probably missed some LH routes so I apologize.

maortega15

JNB, EWR do not have F.

QRC3288

All fair points you raise below. I guess my beef is many fold and the lounge is where all the (first world) beefs collide:

1) consistent F lounge overcrowding
2) generally less than top-notch F lounges, especially compared to "true" F lounge comps
3) the fact that DM is, in general, a signidicantly harder elite tier to obtain than many other competing programs with access to OW lounges. I know there are exceptions and differences based on class, flying pattern etc but overall CX DM is one of the harder OWEs to obtain and generally costs more to obtain and maintain.

I agree this is somewhat moot since I don't see CX giving up its lucrative lounge revenues, plus all the points raised above. But I do think CX could have a huge marketing ploy by having a "Diamond Lounge" in HK solely open to F pax and Diamonds (and maybe DM guests, maybe not). The current Wing is prime candidate. then buggy F pax to their far off gates. (Aka, CX could call it a membership lounge or whatever technicality BA uses for TCR and then provide membership to all DMs and F pax). I don't think this would violate OW rules, and would be a great way to steal back AA and BA pax who maybe fly a fair bit in CX J metal, but credit to the other programs like AA. Why do they credit there? Because AM earn burn sucks and MPC is harder to hit DM/OWE! Aka, the value is less for the buck. Now, those of us who live in HK highly value the "unofficial" (but real and valuable) soft benefits: op ups, super recognition, previously great award inventory which now has slowly gotten crappier and crappier even for DMs. That is where the value is to us. In my view, without some other boost, MPC/AM is losing value on a relative basis considering I can get almost everything on CX I do as a DM that I could as an AA EXP! The little things (easy to score award seats, op ups, privileged lounge access) do add up for folks on the plane a lot. Much if this MPC value, however is for people who constantly transit HKG and fly a lot, both short haul and long haul. If you only llyon CX metal four times a year, you probably should consider earning in AA since the value of those "unofficial" benefits of MPC are considerably less.

So what? I know for certain there is a great disparity in the AA flier who comes through HKG. Some are like my friend doing mileage runs on AA, or booking once annual trips in AA mileage on CX F class, sitting in the Wing F and really not doing a whole lot for CX's bottom line. But, there are others who fly out to hkg multiple times a year in full fare J for business or whatnot. These are the guys who don't see the point in doing MPC since they only fly on CX a few times a year. I wonder if those business pax could be lured over to Asia Miles and MPC if the only way they could get in CXs top lounge was to credit to MPC. Let's face it, mileage programs are addicting and if they're flying through hkg multiple times a year as say EXP and CX has a sweet lounge they can't access, they will want in. It's a risk but I think it could work.

I know there are quite a few DMs, maybe no guests? Or maybe only invite certain DMs? (I suspect id be off this list myself, given the cheap J tix ive been buyinf lately...). I really think there is almost zero chance hoping for true F only (or F plus DM+, thats basically the same thing). It doesn't make sense for CX to have an F only lounge....morning and midday are slow to zero F departures very very few. Actually, late afternoon there aren't more than a few as well. I doubt the economics work that way at all. I am dying to see lounge #s, but I bet if only DM and F are included lounge occupancy drops by 60-70pct.

Kachjc

thx for JNB- used to be on before right?
EWR already accounted for else the whole NYC region would be 30

Syamyael

That would be against the oneworld rules. To me, all emeralds and cx dm flying in J class should be given first class access. DM, emeralds Y should go to business class. DM+ and DM invite may go to first class lounge for any class flown. That would be aligned with the revenue generated.

alphaod

I think it's fine the way it is.

I'm not particularly picky. If the Wing is full, I can go to the Bridge, Cabin, Pier, G16, QF lounge, United Club. So many choices.

mosburger

I'd see three main user groups for such a lounge:

1) HK tycoons and their spouses

2) Mainland Chinese tycoons and their spouses (Chairman Xi might have diminished the chance for government officials to travel F )

3) Gulf Arab and other ME tycoons and their spouses

Might I threefore suggest that CX co-operate with their powerful codeshare partner QR if such a "super lounge" should ever be opened? Of course with reciprocal access for CX F pax in Doha.

Mainland Chineše tastes CX/KA understand anyway.

Such a lounge could even be located in and run by the Regal airport hotel, for example. Just arrange transport from and to the flights.

Kachjc

Why QR?

CX does not really need their expertise for 2 daily flights
as for other routes

ME tycoons will fly EK etc as CX has no F option to that region

ermen

I am helping with alleviating CX F lounge overcrowding.
Since the QF J lounge opened, I have decided to spend more time there instead of the CX F wing even when flying CX. Better beers on tap and F&B IMO.

I think though, some of the overcrowding can be attributable to the closure of F pier

Syamyael

That's my exact sentiments. Dm+ and Dm invite is a good point to start off if we are talking about exclusive first class lounge to be offered alongside real first class passengers. Sq solitaire makes sense as solitaire is only given to passengers traveling solely in business and first class chalking up $250000 in five years, I bet 75% of diamond members aren't even there. Or alternatively, they can make diamond plus clubs more exclusive by awarding only flights taken on business and first class to count towards diamond plus qualification. In that way, it make sense to create an out-out-the-world service for these elite group of travelers.

frankyguy

tng11

I like this idea. The time I went to the Wing F in the morning, I couldn't find a place to sit and had to wait a while to get a table in the dining area. Mind you, I was travelling on an award F ticket, but I would have been disappointed if I was a paying F passenger.

Make it like SQ's TPR or LH's FCL/FCT. TPR is totally restricted to passengers who are ticketed in SQ F - AFAIK even PPS Solitaires only have access to the FCL. At most, DM+/Invitations could be invited similar to how LH restricts the FCL to their own super-elite HON members. It could just be a separate area like the TPR lounge within a lounge concept with better food/drink offerings and extra touches (e.g. Krug in the lounge, more extensive dining menu and escorts to the plane would be nice!)

It's a good point though CX doesn't have that many flights with F out there. SQ has a lot more flights with F and their cabins are bigger too (8 or 12) - the TPR is rather tiny, but I love how tranquil and calm it is!

QRC3288

Is it possible there is some confusion about the Invitation level? My understanding is it's a grab-bag of people, many of whom aren't that exclusive and spend less than regular DMs. Some are remnants from the old program before the MPC conversion who had lifetime.

The problem with DM+ is it is so exclusive - about 100 members globally - that it's really not realistic for most folks. Solitaire is pretty easy compared to DM+. Depending on the year, you're looking at 150k-200k+ USD on CX only to hit DM+. And my understanding of IN is that it's not really aligned with the rest of the program. Maybe CX could open up IN to DMs who CX values more, but still won't spend enough to get DM+?

QRC3288

agree with all points, and someone above who pointed out BA not only has more F flights, but 14 seats in the F cabin on both 747 and A380! Versus CX with just 6 on virtually all F flights except for a tiny amount of remaining 747s with 9 seats. CX just doesn't have enough F seats, and many of those spaces are packed with award travelers.

Selfishly I wish they'd create a DM lounge available to DMs and F travelers...won't be as exclusive as TCR, but I still think it'd be a great pull for CX's own MPC program and could help bridge the F lounge overcrowding problem that has been persistent as long as I've been a DM (6+ years).

At a minimum, CX should provide true F pax a fastpass through HKIA immigration and a buggy! Personally I get nothing out of this, but.....man it's painful to see that HKIA visitor line every time I pass by with my HKID. I can only imagine it sucks waiting in that line for 10-20 minutes.

tng11

Come to think of it, as much as the Asian carriers are amazing at in-flight service (e.g. NH, JL, KE, OZ, SQ), with the exception of TG/GA, the ground service is always the weak point, with no escorts, fast track immigration/security or a real "exclusive" lounge like the ME3 or some European airlines like LH or AF (and most would argue the European carriers aren't quite at the level of service in-flight as CX.)

I don't think CX has any real motivation to spend all that extra money in providing a "super F" lounge just to appease some F passengers as the competition just isn't there (people are not going to transit SIN to get to Europe/NA just because SQ has a better lounge), and I have a strong suspicion that a good % of passengers in the F cabin are on award/miles upgrade tickets anyways.

Nor do I think that OWEs spoil the atmosphere and it's more just a question of space - I think the SYD/MEL QF F lounge are among the very best lounges in the world with their great dining menu and spa service for F passengers.

With all the J lounges at HKG - probably they could just make the Wing one big F lounge to ease the overcrowding, or when the Pier F comes back, I'll be a happy camper.