two questions and an observation about lounge crowding..
#31
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However, the big zinger is the rate of earning status. Most other airlines will give you 400% the status "currency" for flying J vs discount economy, but CX only gives you 125%. But people still strive for Gold/Diamond MPO. I think the fact that there are lower earning rates means the member ranks are relatively smaller, and personally I have received better service than I would ever hope for with QF (for example).
#32
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,978
If you are talking about miles, a lot of airlines (eg Qantas) who give higher miles for class of service, also have higher burn rates, so it's not comparable.
However, the big zinger is the rate of earning status. Most other airlines will give you 400% the status "currency" for flying J vs discount economy, but CX only gives you 125%. But people still strive for Gold/Diamond MPO. I think the fact that there are lower earning rates means the member ranks are relatively smaller, and personally I have received better service than I would ever hope for with QF (for example).
However, the big zinger is the rate of earning status. Most other airlines will give you 400% the status "currency" for flying J vs discount economy, but CX only gives you 125%. But people still strive for Gold/Diamond MPO. I think the fact that there are lower earning rates means the member ranks are relatively smaller, and personally I have received better service than I would ever hope for with QF (for example).
#33
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Programs: CX, UA, Shangri-La, Hyatt, Starwood
Posts: 7,708
F lounges
I brought this up here to hopefully consolidate some of concurrent debates we have going on other threads.
Issues with different "types" of DMs aside, to me it seems grossly obviously the biggest complaint / issue with Diamond is the F lounges. Although nice, I suppose they don't have an F exclusive feel. There simply are just a lot of people per square foot and that's not the most relaxing environment.
I think there are 3 reasons we groan about the lounges, all 3 related:
1.) Too many people
2.) Too small space
3.) (IMO, a much smaller issue) F&B offerings not nice / extensive enough
For #1:
Until I see data from CX, I can't say it's a problem of having too many DMs. I'd be thrilled if someone had this data: what % of F lounge pax are DMs not flying F, guests (I'm guilty of this on many occasions), other OW Emeralds, actual F pax (without status), or J pax sneaking in the Wing? It's very easy to just enter the F lounge on the J side because nobody is there to monitor it.
Without saying what CX should do, I suspect it's less DMs than presumed. And it's obviously a business decision to cater to the OW pax (instead of acting like the BA dragons and turning alliance members away for "capacity reasons") - CX gets paid for those alliance partner lounge entries.
FWIW, I don't know about other DMs on here, but count me as one who uses the Wing F <=33% of the time I fly ex-HKIA. Aka, I'm not in the Wing as much as I could be. I bet other DMs are similar. Whereas, I highly suspect a OWE member would make a beeline for the Wing F. That's precisely what I do when I'm traveling in other OW countries - head for the F lounge. But living in HK and traveling out of the airport hundreds of times, I:
A.) Arrive at the airport at last possible minute, skipping lounges entirely
B.) Prefer the food/ambiance at the Cabin, spend ~half my lounge time here (assuming crowds are equally big at Cabin vs. Wing F). If Wing F was empty I'd probably go there, but it never is.
C.) I sometimes sit outside in the public area, relax and admittedly eat Popeyes. Occasionally I'll do some shopping. HKIA is a great airport even if you skip the lounges entirely.
The F lounge just isn't relaxing enough to make it a go-to spot for me.
For #2:
CX aren't morons. They know how many people are in the lounge. Hence, they know roughly what they think the capacity/day is based on a lounge of a certain size. It seems to me that they simply think that # for the F lounge is higher than we appreciate. Aka, pax/square foot/day. Obviously, adding more space to the F lounges - without adding additional pax (welcome QR members...) - will help. I'm glad to see the Atrium is (temporarily) becoming an F section in the Wing. Not only will it add space, but it will cut down on the amount of J pax who are sneaking into the Wing F and adding to the crowds.
For #3:
This could be somewhat related, as CX presumably has a cost/pax they're paying HKSH for catering. So if #s go down, maybe CX can afford to spend more. But to me, #1 and #2 are the bigger issues - I think I would far enjoy the F lounges if there were just fewer people, you could get a small area to yourself instead of sharing it with three others, etc.
Issues with different "types" of DMs aside, to me it seems grossly obviously the biggest complaint / issue with Diamond is the F lounges. Although nice, I suppose they don't have an F exclusive feel. There simply are just a lot of people per square foot and that's not the most relaxing environment.
I think there are 3 reasons we groan about the lounges, all 3 related:
1.) Too many people
2.) Too small space
3.) (IMO, a much smaller issue) F&B offerings not nice / extensive enough
For #1:
Until I see data from CX, I can't say it's a problem of having too many DMs. I'd be thrilled if someone had this data: what % of F lounge pax are DMs not flying F, guests (I'm guilty of this on many occasions), other OW Emeralds, actual F pax (without status), or J pax sneaking in the Wing? It's very easy to just enter the F lounge on the J side because nobody is there to monitor it.
Without saying what CX should do, I suspect it's less DMs than presumed. And it's obviously a business decision to cater to the OW pax (instead of acting like the BA dragons and turning alliance members away for "capacity reasons") - CX gets paid for those alliance partner lounge entries.
FWIW, I don't know about other DMs on here, but count me as one who uses the Wing F <=33% of the time I fly ex-HKIA. Aka, I'm not in the Wing as much as I could be. I bet other DMs are similar. Whereas, I highly suspect a OWE member would make a beeline for the Wing F. That's precisely what I do when I'm traveling in other OW countries - head for the F lounge. But living in HK and traveling out of the airport hundreds of times, I:
A.) Arrive at the airport at last possible minute, skipping lounges entirely
B.) Prefer the food/ambiance at the Cabin, spend ~half my lounge time here (assuming crowds are equally big at Cabin vs. Wing F). If Wing F was empty I'd probably go there, but it never is.
C.) I sometimes sit outside in the public area, relax and admittedly eat Popeyes. Occasionally I'll do some shopping. HKIA is a great airport even if you skip the lounges entirely.
The F lounge just isn't relaxing enough to make it a go-to spot for me.
For #2:
CX aren't morons. They know how many people are in the lounge. Hence, they know roughly what they think the capacity/day is based on a lounge of a certain size. It seems to me that they simply think that # for the F lounge is higher than we appreciate. Aka, pax/square foot/day. Obviously, adding more space to the F lounges - without adding additional pax (welcome QR members...) - will help. I'm glad to see the Atrium is (temporarily) becoming an F section in the Wing. Not only will it add space, but it will cut down on the amount of J pax who are sneaking into the Wing F and adding to the crowds.
For #3:
This could be somewhat related, as CX presumably has a cost/pax they're paying HKSH for catering. So if #s go down, maybe CX can afford to spend more. But to me, #1 and #2 are the bigger issues - I think I would far enjoy the F lounges if there were just fewer people, you could get a small area to yourself instead of sharing it with three others, etc.
#34
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Frankly a CX DM and F ticket on CX passenger section is the way to go, no watery congee or badly made noodles, just a section only for these people, no BA QF or AA longers.
#35
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#36
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So let's have a thinking we assume 6 f seats for each flight.
For the evening peak:
LHR 12
LaX 6
Sfo 6
JFK YVR 6
MXP 6
Fra 6
Cdg 6
So only less than 50 pax - so prob hard to justify a separate section just for F class
Even counting other flights potentially with F class there will be less than 100 real F pax per day
However if it restricts to only DM and F pax then it can make sense
#37
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Problem is not enough F pax. Unlike BA which cramps 14 f class seats on the 744 there's really not that many
So only less than 50 pax - so prob hard to justify a separate section just for F class
Even counting other flights potentially with F class there will be less than 100 real F pax per day
So only less than 50 pax - so prob hard to justify a separate section just for F class
Even counting other flights potentially with F class there will be less than 100 real F pax per day
#39
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Posts: 3,513
6 flights daily LHR-JFK . If each one has 14 seats that makes 84
And then there are LAX/SFO/ORD/MIA/PHX/SEA/YVR.......
So the nos do add up
Actually just thought about it BA prob offers the most real F Class seats in the world now
#42
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Problem is not enough F pax. Unlike BA which cramps 14 f class seats on the 744 there's really not that many
So let's have a thinking we assume 6 f seats for each flight.
For the evening peak:
LHR 12
LaX 6
Sfo 6
JFK YVR 6
MXP 6
Fra 6
Cdg 6
So only less than 50 pax - so prob hard to justify a separate section just for F class
Even counting other flights potentially with F class there will be less than 100 real F pax per day
However if it restricts to only DM and F pax then it can make sense
So let's have a thinking we assume 6 f seats for each flight.
For the evening peak:
LHR 12
LaX 6
Sfo 6
JFK YVR 6
MXP 6
Fra 6
Cdg 6
So only less than 50 pax - so prob hard to justify a separate section just for F class
Even counting other flights potentially with F class there will be less than 100 real F pax per day
However if it restricts to only DM and F pax then it can make sense
#43
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,513
Space is an issue at HKIA
Just wondered what is the setup for JL in NRT? I heard they have some mystery lounge?
#44
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But even then prob won't have enough. There are much less of these people compare to GGL, CR holder and Premier holders in BA. Also for real VIPs (ie not celebrities) they goto the VIP lounge and dept area anyway.
Space is an issue at HKIA
Just wondered what is the setup for JL in NRT? I heard they have some mystery lounge?
Space is an issue at HKIA
Just wondered what is the setup for JL in NRT? I heard they have some mystery lounge?
#45
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,513
I'm thinking other than LH and BA, which other airline have this arrangement?