ELY001

The troubles of Arkia are well publicized in both the Hebrew and English Israeli press. Here is a good article from two years ago that goes into detail as to what is wrong inside Arkia. Yes, the article is two years old, but very little has changed since then. The same underlying problems remain. Interesting coincidence how Arkia and EL AL have virtually the same issues. http://www.haaretz.com/business/why-...emium-1.471506

A noteworthy quote from the article: "At a shareholder meeting on July 30, Nakash told the employee-shareholders that the company is facing liquidity problems that threaten its ability to meet its current liabilities. Arkia needed a cash injection of $10 million from its shareholders, he claimed, and made it clear to the minority shareholders that their holdings would be diluted if they didn't contribute their part."

I don't believe that EL AL has faced liquidity problems since it's 1982 strike and therefore one can conclude that the situation in Arkia is worse than it is at EL AL.

Until recently is the key. All the Israeli airlines are suffering as a result of the lack of rebound of the tourist sector due to last summer's conflict.

Unless they can offer charters to the far east for lower than RJ, TK, and new market entrant Hainan Airlines, I think they will see limited, if any, success on far east charters. Arkia's main profit center has always been a/c leasing. It was that way historically, and it remains so, which is why I believe they are going to lease those planes out.

That is a very serious charge, claiming "terrible mechanical condition of their long haul a/c". Do you have any evidence to back up that their long haul a/c are in a "terrible mechanical condition"?

Also, back during the mid 2000's when Israir flew to New York, fuel prices were much lower than they were over the past several years. Also, the a/c they used was not owned by them. They wet leased 1 a/c at a time specifically dedicated to the route; first it was a 767 and then an A330, I believe the 767 was wet leased from Air Atlanta Icelandic, not sure where the A330 was leased from. Perhaps what really did Israir in on the route was the pilot error runway incursion incident at JFK, where the non-Israeli pilots taxied into an active runway after landing and right in front of a cargo plane taking off which rotated early in order to miss the taxing Israir a/c.

joshwex90

This article isn't exactly about Arkia's economic standing, but is much more recent and implies a wildly different economic situation for them: מנכ"ל ארקיע הפורש: "הלואו קוסט לא מתאים לצרכן הישראלי" - Globes (Hebrew: Resigning CEO of Arkia: "The Low-Cost (model, i.e. LCC) isn't appropriate for the Israeli consumer"

ELY001

Thanks for posting the article. Interesting how Arkia's CEO is out of touch with the Israeli consumer. Everyone knows that TLV is a "Y" heavy and "C" light market, thereby indicating that the LCC model is both appropriate and would be successful for the Israeli consumer.

The reasons why all three Israeli carriers are struggling while TLV is consistently one of the top most profitable routes for just about every airline that flies there is not only due to inept management, but also because the companies have not reformed themselves to adapt to the changing global aviation landscape, in addition to operating under outdated contracts, at least that is true in EL AL's case.

joshwex90

The reason he mentions LCCs not working is because if you buy early enough in advance, you can get cheap flights with better services (which Israelis care for - they don't like being nickel and dimed, Israeli banking system not withstanding).

The big issue with buying early is what if that doesn't work out for you? And for that, he mentions the Consumer Protection Law which allows refunds (basically turning most of the airline industry's platform on its head). Of course that point is moot as it seems to never apply, and as I seem to get it, it applies to virtually no airlines (they each seem to have their reasons why)

I'm curious though why you say that everyone knows that TLV is C-light? That's not the impression I've gotten from UA or BA

nombody

I've never seen this happen on an El Al flight. I can't imagine chocolate being that great to get into an argument like this.
http://www.0404.co.il/post/24059

N830MH

Sorry, I can't read Hebrew. Can you please translate it?

nombody

Well I won't translate the exact words, seeing as how they are mostly curses and insults from the passengers to the flight attendants. The passengers wanted to buy some chocolate from the in-flight duty free. For some reason (supposedly they were too close to landing) the flight attendants were not able or willing to sell anymore items and this woman and her family got furious about it.

zkzkz

I flew Pegasus (Turkish LCC) from TLV and afaict the entire plane was full of Israelis connecting to European destinations in Italy and elsewhere looking for cheaper flights than El Al and the national European carriers that fly direct. I don't think there's any difficulty selling the LCC model to Israelis; if there's a problem it's on the operations side.

entropy

I'm pretty sure that EasyJet is doing quite well at TLV...

the problem is not LCCs, its the stupidity of the Israeli aviation companies, and the obnoxious tendencies of some passengers. The difference in passenger behavior on a NYC-TLV between LY and UA is striking.

joshwex90

Eh, I'm finding more and more of the same. I'd sooner argue that the difference in behavior on EWR-TLV versus EWR-LHF/FRA/BRU/etc. on UA is astounding.

ON THE FLIP SIDE, some pax on the TLV flights, particularly on LY, have been some of the warmest and friendliest people I've met - having been a lone soldier, new immigrant without my family, etc. - fellow pax have treated me like long lost family. That's not something I'd expect on any other route.

NYTA

It's not just an airline, it's Israel.

TWA884

Well, it didn't happen on Arkia - the subject of this thread - either. According to Ynet, this incident took place on an Israir flight.

N830MH

Israir who tried to completed against LY. They couldn't working out too well. They couldn't do it at all.



I didn't hear the news lately. How is Easyjet doing so far? Is doing pretty well? Can they adds more new routes?

joshwex90

They are going out with full loads, have been adding new routes, and have high ratings. Doing pretty well

N830MH

Can they expands more new routes and adds more new frequencies?