Ryanair takes risk to take less fuel
Dec 29, 2012, 1:48 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 552
Ryanair takes risk to take less fuel
On a Dutch TV documentary some news sites I read that pilot associations were anxious about FR pilots are being forced to take less fuel to save costs and risking emergency landings. On July 26, *three* FR 737s were forced to land at Valencia due to fuel shortage.
The readon for the cheap flights ?
http://algarvedailynews.com/news/848...s-to-save-fuel
http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/201...gen/28-12-2012
The readon for the cheap flights ?
http://algarvedailynews.com/news/848...s-to-save-fuel
http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/201...gen/28-12-2012
Dec 29, 2012, 4:12 am
#2
Moderator: Aegean Miles+Bonus
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As long as the rules in regards to minimums are followed, I see nothing wrong with their approach. Extra fuel costs a lot and taking the right amount can save bundles of money.
Having said that, if this will become a regular occurrence, one might want to avoid Ryanair to prevent excessive delays due to refueling halfway ;-)
Actually I am surprised Ryanair does not already have flights with (planned
) additional fuel stops. The longer routes could have a stop halfway to re-fuel, meaning only half the weight of fuel needs to be taken for the first leg. I assume that might be financially attractive.
Ie, NRN-PFO is a distance of 2750 KM. With a stop halfway at one of their Italian bases, for the first 1400KM only 50% of fuel needs to be taken.
At 3KG per gallon of fuel, and a usage of 1.4 gallons per KM, that would save almost 6000KG weight for the first half of the flight. Sure, taking off twice will cost some extra, but in total I think it might be favorable to stop and refuel.
//offtopic
Having said that, if this will become a regular occurrence, one might want to avoid Ryanair to prevent excessive delays due to refueling halfway ;-)
Actually I am surprised Ryanair does not already have flights with (planned
) additional fuel stops. The longer routes could have a stop halfway to re-fuel, meaning only half the weight of fuel needs to be taken for the first leg. I assume that might be financially attractive.Ie, NRN-PFO is a distance of 2750 KM. With a stop halfway at one of their Italian bases, for the first 1400KM only 50% of fuel needs to be taken.
At 3KG per gallon of fuel, and a usage of 1.4 gallons per KM, that would save almost 6000KG weight for the first half of the flight. Sure, taking off twice will cost some extra, but in total I think it might be favorable to stop and refuel.
//offtopic
Last edited by Xandrios; Dec 29, 2012 at 4:23 am
Dec 29, 2012, 2:00 pm
#3
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Actually I am surprised Ryanair does not already have flights with (planned ) additional fuel stops. The longer routes could have a stop halfway to re-fuel, meaning only half the weight of fuel needs to be taken for the first leg. I assume that might be financially attractive.
Ie, NRN-PFO is a distance of 2750 KM. With a stop halfway at one of their Italian bases, for the first 1400KM only 50% of fuel needs to be taken.
At 3KG per gallon of fuel, and a usage of 1.4 gallons per KM, that would save almost 6000KG weight for the first half of the flight. Sure, taking off twice will cost some extra, but in total I think it might be favorable to stop and refuel.
//offtopic
) additional fuel stops. The longer routes could have a stop halfway to re-fuel, meaning only half the weight of fuel needs to be taken for the first leg. I assume that might be financially attractive.Ie, NRN-PFO is a distance of 2750 KM. With a stop halfway at one of their Italian bases, for the first 1400KM only 50% of fuel needs to be taken.
At 3KG per gallon of fuel, and a usage of 1.4 gallons per KM, that would save almost 6000KG weight for the first half of the flight. Sure, taking off twice will cost some extra, but in total I think it might be favorable to stop and refuel.
//offtopic
Major expenses ones would be the time-related costs of crew, time-related and cyclical maintenance costs and the opportunity cost of aircraft hours. And that's before considering any competitive disadvantage generated.
However FR's operational team will have a fair idea of the probabilities of fuel-related diversions for given fuel loads, making it possible for them to adjust these so as to generate an "acceptable" risk of diversion.
Dec 31, 2012, 4:22 pm
#4
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I think this is a complete non-story. If the airline takes only the minimum permitted by law then it is doing nothing wrong. The minimum permitted will allow for some sort of delay in the air being encountered so it's simply sound business sense IMO.
If the legal minimum is not sufficient then that is what needs to be changed, not FR's policy (if it actually is their policy as according to FR the captain can choose how much fuel to load although I am sure they are reminded of the cost of unneccessary weight).
If the legal minimum is not sufficient then that is what needs to be changed, not FR's policy (if it actually is their policy as according to FR the captain can choose how much fuel to load although I am sure they are reminded of the cost of unneccessary weight).
Dec 31, 2012, 10:40 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
The flights in question had held over Valencia for roughly an hour each before requesting permission to land, and also landed with half an hours fuel remaining.
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/madri...lencia-26-july
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/madri...lencia-26-july
Dec 31, 2012, 11:05 pm
#6
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 323
For more balanced reporting, try The Aviation Herald. I'll quote just the parts that take most of the sensation out of the story, emphasis mine
tl;dr, 1 out of 3 Ryanair flights lands with 93% of required final reserve. A LAN A340 performing a short leg (FRA-MAD) lands with 75% of required final reserve
All airlines push the envelope. Ryanair is not an exception in that regard. No story here
having-never-flown-FR-ly-y'rs,
qvzn
Originally Posted by AVHerald / Simon Hradecky
...
A number of flights of various operators, that diverted due to the weather in Madrid all around Spain, needed to declare emergencies as result of their diversions as well in order to prevent further delays, that could have put the flights at risk of cutting into the required final fuel reserve. The Spanish Airport Operator AENA's statement released to press, that only Ryanair aircraft were affected by fuel emergencies, is contradicted by evidence and is false.
While ICAO recommends to recognize a "minimum fuel" declaration in order to indicate to air traffic control that any unexpected delay might create an emergency situation on board, Europe has no legal foundation for such a minimum fuel declaration as the French BEA recently reported in one of their final reports, [...]. Standard operating procedures therefore require, that crews declare emergency in order to prevent any further delays at the latest, when landing above final fuel reserve is no longer ensured. Minimum fuel declarations as well as emergency calls as result of being low on fuel thus happen regularly around the planet following weather related holdings and diversions.
...
Ryanair confirmed in the evening of Aug 22nd that flight FR-2054 landed slightly below final fuel reserve.
A LAN Airlines Airbus A340-300, registration CC-CQF performing flight LA-705 from Frankfurt/Main (Germany) to Madrid,SP (Spain), estimated flight time 3:10 hours, was on final approach to Madrid's runway 18L when the crew went around from about 4000 feet MSL at 20:02Z. The aircraft climbed to FL120 and followed delay vectors until 20:22Z (20 minutes) when the crew decided to divert to Valencia. Still on a westerly heading in opposite direction to Valencia the aircraft climbed to FL280 before turning east to Valencia. On descent towards Valencia the crew declared Mayday reporting being low on fuel. The aircraft reached Valencia descending through FL100 at 21:09Z and subsequently lost an engine. The aircraft landed in Valencia at 21:16Z 74 minutes after going around in Madrid with 1300kg/2860lbs of fuel in the left wing tank and 800kg/1760lbs of fuel in the right wing tank remaining substantially below the required minimum final fuel reserve of about 2800kg/6170lbs.
A number of flights of various operators, that diverted due to the weather in Madrid all around Spain, needed to declare emergencies as result of their diversions as well in order to prevent further delays, that could have put the flights at risk of cutting into the required final fuel reserve. The Spanish Airport Operator AENA's statement released to press, that only Ryanair aircraft were affected by fuel emergencies, is contradicted by evidence and is false.
While ICAO recommends to recognize a "minimum fuel" declaration in order to indicate to air traffic control that any unexpected delay might create an emergency situation on board, Europe has no legal foundation for such a minimum fuel declaration as the French BEA recently reported in one of their final reports, [...]. Standard operating procedures therefore require, that crews declare emergency in order to prevent any further delays at the latest, when landing above final fuel reserve is no longer ensured. Minimum fuel declarations as well as emergency calls as result of being low on fuel thus happen regularly around the planet following weather related holdings and diversions.
...
Ryanair confirmed in the evening of Aug 22nd that flight FR-2054 landed slightly below final fuel reserve.
A LAN Airlines Airbus A340-300, registration CC-CQF performing flight LA-705 from Frankfurt/Main (Germany) to Madrid,SP (Spain), estimated flight time 3:10 hours, was on final approach to Madrid's runway 18L when the crew went around from about 4000 feet MSL at 20:02Z. The aircraft climbed to FL120 and followed delay vectors until 20:22Z (20 minutes) when the crew decided to divert to Valencia. Still on a westerly heading in opposite direction to Valencia the aircraft climbed to FL280 before turning east to Valencia. On descent towards Valencia the crew declared Mayday reporting being low on fuel. The aircraft reached Valencia descending through FL100 at 21:09Z and subsequently lost an engine. The aircraft landed in Valencia at 21:16Z 74 minutes after going around in Madrid with 1300kg/2860lbs of fuel in the left wing tank and 800kg/1760lbs of fuel in the right wing tank remaining substantially below the required minimum final fuel reserve of about 2800kg/6170lbs.
All airlines push the envelope. Ryanair is not an exception in that regard. No story here
having-never-flown-FR-ly-y'rs,
qvzn