Why don't BA sell upgrades for empty seats?
Aug 13, 2017, 12:32 am
#31
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However - unless I've missed it - one thing that isn't clear is why, whenever there is space in the next cabin up, they don't more pro-actively offer at-airport offers for approximately the same difference in price as it would cost to book the premium cabin in the first place.
I suspect they wouldn't get a huge number of takers at such a price, but even if just an occasional person did it (never underestimate impulse purchasing!), I assume it would provide BA with some additional profit? I assume the marginal cost of administration and the J class meal/amenities would be more than outweighed by the near-enough full price ticket…
I suspect they wouldn't get a huge number of takers at such a price, but even if just an occasional person did it (never underestimate impulse purchasing!), I assume it would provide BA with some additional profit? I assume the marginal cost of administration and the J class meal/amenities would be more than outweighed by the near-enough full price ticket…
Aug 13, 2017, 1:16 am
#32
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+1 For an airline "protecting the integrity of the premium cabins" they sure don't mind ramming them to the gills with pax who have paid nothing at the last minute but won't release an upgrade using Avios to their top tier members even a few hours in advance. I have talked to a lot of people in CW seats next to me over the years and they have been totally surprised at the gate by being upgraded. Very few of them ever mentioned being in BAEC. Good for them I say but for ffs BA needs to stop the integrity of the cabin crap
Give them a taste of the premium cabin and hope they will book it he next time
If someone usually flies club, but on one flight choose to fly WT+, why upgrade them to club, at either a significantly reduce price or OpUp? That would just encourage them to pay for WT+ the next time.
Aug 13, 2017, 2:33 am
#33
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I think you misunderstand. BA is not protecting the integrity of the cabin - it is protecting it's revenue. You may not like this but BA are not doing this for fun or even to win a single customer's approval. They are doing it to generate revenue and, having done this for a little while now, they have ample evidence that the strategy works. You don't have to like it or even agree with it, your choice is whether you fly with BA or another carrier.
Aug 13, 2017, 4:42 am
#34
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I think you misunderstand. BA is not protecting the integrity of the cabin - it is protecting it's revenue. You may not like this but BA are not doing this for fun or even to win a single customer's approval. They are doing it to generate revenue and, having done this for a little while now, they have ample evidence that the strategy works. You don't have to like it or even agree with it, your choice is whether you fly with BA or another carrier.
They don't give a flying fig about the integrity of the cabin - just how much money they can make.
Aug 13, 2017, 5:19 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2001
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This is a sales ploy and revenue protection ploy.
Give them a taste of the premium cabin and hope they will book it he next time
If someone usually flies club, but on one flight choose to fly WT+, why upgrade them to club, at either a significantly reduce price or OpUp? That would just encourage them to pay for WT+ the next time.
Give them a taste of the premium cabin and hope they will book it he next time
If someone usually flies club, but on one flight choose to fly WT+, why upgrade them to club, at either a significantly reduce price or OpUp? That would just encourage them to pay for WT+ the next time.
It likely makes more sense to allow a passenger who flies WT+ a couple times a year - perhaps with no or Bronze status - to self-select for a seat in a premium cabin and reduce their Avios liability than to just offer it to some random passenger.
Aug 13, 2017, 5:33 am
#36
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Actually I fully understand this. It is the term "protecting the integrity of the cabin" that makes me laugh. I do remember when BA flew with empty seats in CW and F but now they ram them with random passengers. I agree you shouldn't nurture an expectation for top status passengers to get upgraded all the time like with NA airlines. I still don't understand why BA's higher status fliers can't be given an opportunity to UuA at T-24 or less rather than random op-ups for free. BA would still be further ahead revenue wise as an Avios liability would be drawn down.
Aug 13, 2017, 6:26 am
#37
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Actually I fully understand this. It is the term "protecting the integrity of the cabin" that makes me laugh. I do remember when BA flew with empty seats in CW and F but now they ram them with random passengers. I agree you shouldn't nurture an expectation for top status passengers to get upgraded all the time like with NA airlines. I still don't understand why BA's higher status fliers can't be given an opportunity to UuA at T-24 or less rather than random op-ups for free. BA would still be further ahead revenue wise as an Avios liability would be drawn down.
Aug 13, 2017, 6:37 am
#38
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It is also possible to UuA on the day of travel. Availability at this time of year won't be great, but anyone going in CW to KUL tonight can UuA to First (currently 3 seats going). Off season the availability can be rather more impressive.
Aug 13, 2017, 5:35 pm
#39
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BA do not ram their premium cabins full of random people, or at least they do not view it this way. Unless the rear cabins are oversold there will be no upgrades - there is no commercial reason to do so. IF the rear cabins are oversold then there will be upgrades, there are several ways you can do this - many on this board would suggest that frequent fliers and those with status should get these upgrades. To a certain extent this is the case, but BA also use this as an opportunity for those close to a status jump to show them a higher class of travel, the belief being that show them a glimpse of something better and they will be more inclined to pay for it next time. The flip side of this is that FFs would soon learn to use the various tools online to identify which flights are liable to status upgrades so preferentially travel on these flights and to gain upgrades for free. Better to use these upgrades as a upselling tool than to gift free upgrades to no sales advantage. Either way, you get what you pay for and free upgrades are just that, BA decide who they want to give them to, in this sense it is their train set and they get to decide who they give away upgrades to.
Aug 13, 2017, 5:52 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2017
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I would like to see some evidence that US airlines are doing so poorly allowing their elite travellers to upgrade. AA and UA appear to be doing just fine.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
Aug 13, 2017, 8:00 pm
#41
Join Date: Mar 2016
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I guess this needs investment big or small, but BA is cutting the cost right now, certainly this is not something they prioritised to do. Also for avios, it is not real currency or money, BA may increase the amount of avios for a redemption if they found its too much of a liability as far as I can see.
I would like to see some evidence that US airlines are doing so poorly allowing their elite travellers to upgrade. AA and UA appear to be doing just fine.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
Aug 13, 2017, 10:41 pm
#42
Moderator, Emirates
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I would like to see some evidence that US airlines are doing so poorly allowing their elite travellers to upgrade. AA and UA appear to be doing just fine.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
But secondly, what is the value of avois? There are few and far between upgrade opportunities when 3 years ago it was quite easy to take advantage of upgrade opportunities. So it appears the value is really for those who are willing to use avios far in advance to book holiday travel rather than the frequent traveller who has less time to book. I have found them useful in discounting expensive hotel rates.
My thought - if anyone from BA is reading this - is add to the app the ability for Gold and above to bid on upgrades within 12 hours of flight. Create an auction for the seats. Pay with cash or avois. It does not devalue the product as only your most loyal customers are being given the opportunity.
S
Aug 14, 2017, 3:17 am
#43
Join Date: May 2010
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Why use the same system as EK - if seats are available at departure then they can be sold as upgrades for Avios at usual cost (I think this is limited to Silver card holders and above). This allows members to use their airmiles (which as Crampedin13A points out have been paid for) and gets the liability off the airlines balance sheet.
I agree that there may be an issue for BA in sorting appropriate catering etc but other airlines seem to manage.
Although it is also possible to suggest that airlines are quite happy to leave airmiles on the liabilities side until they, or the owner, expire.......
I agree that there may be an issue for BA in sorting appropriate catering etc but other airlines seem to manage.
Although it is also possible to suggest that airlines are quite happy to leave airmiles on the liabilities side until they, or the owner, expire.......