ABBA - anyone but BA

Old Jul 23, 2017, 3:04 pm
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by Grog
My response to: ABBA - Anyone but BA

(sung to the tune of...oh, you'll figure it out.)

If you change your mind, BA's the first in line
Honey, they'll be free
Or will you Flybe?
If you need them, let them know, gonna be around
If you've got no place to go, if you're feeling down.

If you're all alone, when the Kranich's flown,
Honey, BA's free,
And you're trapped emotionally.

Gonna do their very best and it ain't no lie (cough!)
If you put them to the test, if you let them try (cough cough!)

'Cause you know they got
So much BA wanna do, when they put the screws to you
It's magic!
You think you can leave it there, cut this love/hate affair?
But I think you know
That you can't let go...
Impressive ^

So, we should take a chance on BA?...
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 3:31 pm
  #122  
 
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Surely, when all is said and done, it's gimme gimme gimme money money money?
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 3:49 pm
  #123  
 
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Originally Posted by seat 13a
...Cruz is aiming as low as 21 one way to Alicante and 379 return to New York, Florida and Dubai. Thats cheap enough to compete with the low-cost carriers...
379 is exactly what I had paid to fly BA to Dubai a couple of years ago with all the "perks" still in place, so I'm not sure that he appeals to me with the notion that it's a lower price than before (maybe if converted into dollar terms, given that the GBP is worth 20-30% less than it did then but that should be irrelevant to the flying public in the UK, who didn't see their wages adjusted for this drop).
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 3:52 pm
  #124  
 
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Originally Posted by gosha83
379 is exactly what I had paid to fly BA to Dubai a couple of years ago with all the "perks" still in place, so I'm not sure that he appeals to me with the notion that it's a lower price than before (maybe if converted into dollar terms, given that the GBP is worth 20-30% less than it did then but that should be irrelevant to the flying public in the UK, who didn't see their wages adjusted for this drop).
BA have always been able to offer super cheap fares if they wanted to, during sales, after the Gulf War, financial crisis etc.

It is not a credible excuse for trashing the product rather a lot of margin-pocketing is going on.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 4:07 pm
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by simons1
But you just quoted my answer. What part of right now the answer is zero, because I have a supplier who provides it for free is unclear to you?
No it's perfectly clear but utterly irrelevent

My question is obviously unclear to you however, I asked how much would YOU pay, if YOU were paying.

It's quite a simple one really and completely unconnected to the fact that someone else is paying for your tickets!
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 4:32 pm
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj
No it's perfectly clear but utterly irrelevent

My question is obviously unclear to you however, I asked how much would YOU pay, if YOU were paying.

It's quite a simple one really and completely unconnected to the fact that someone else is paying for your tickets!
And their answer is perfectly valid. There are airlines that provide a better service to me for less money or the same. So I'd be silly to pay any more, I'd just use another airline.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 5:05 pm
  #127  
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Unlike various shock-horror tabloid stories, I think this Sunday Times story spells real trouble for BA - which is why I posted it.
It's written by a senior ST business writer who works both sides of the Atlantic; it's the magazine lead in the biggest and most authoritative broadsheet with a huge business readership slap bang in BA's main passenger pool; and although it has few elements new to readers of this blog, it is an accumulation of negative headlines which are now impacting dangerously on the company.
ST readers are the passengers, analysts, investors and pension fund managers who fly biz class but whose company policies hold them in as BA customers - so they know the deterioration first hand.
The problem for BA is that its troubles have become mainstream, its poor service is a byword, and reputations once lost are not easily recovered. When Cruz admits the strategy is falling, it can't be long before the board agrees - and changes that strategy and the team that implemented it. Can it? Is anyone at Westworld/Waterworld/Waterside listening?
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 8:55 pm
  #128  
 
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Nothing wrong with being cheap down the back and class leading at the front. BA's problem is they are neither.

In economy price is all that matters. They could offer a Main Cabin Extra type arrangement to keep those who want extra perks happy, and add incentives for BAEC members. Instead they have cut uniformly across the board and annoyed everyone from occasional leisure passengers to the most frequent of flyers.

At the other end I don't think they have any idea what it takes to be a top premium airline anymore. CW and F are so far behind now and everything new (789 F) or on the horizon (new CW) is just lipstick on a pig.

I assume they cant get the cost base low enough on the economy end to facilitate real investment in the premium end.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 9:35 pm
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by 1010101
Nothing wrong with being cheap down the back and class leading at the front.
I disagree completely.

If you're going to lead - lead.

You can't mix and match your brand. I've been scratching my head trying to think of a brand which has successfully tackled all markets at the same time - simultaneously luxury and top of the line to some and cheap as chips/no frills to others.

You don't look at VW and thing 'cheap in some cars, expensive in others' - they've got the Skoda brand for the cheap ones. VW hold their brand for the quality cars. (despite the fact it's pretty much the same chassis/components etc).

People have been referencing Waitrose and the essentials range. That isn't 'cheap' - it's 'cheap for Waitrose'. It's not there to attract Aldi/Lidl shoppers - it's there to stop the existing customers leaving to those brands.

You could argue Tesco did a fair job for a while with their finest range and their basics range. But then you have to look at how many customers they haemorrhaged in the last few years - at both ends - when it turned out they were neither quality nor cheap!

If BA want to create an image of a class leading business/first product - great. But they need to remember that their customers will know that the Y product is not good and when time comes to book in Y (for SH or family holidays) they'll think "hmm - let's give <insert other airline here> a try". When they find out the other airline is either comparable or better - the frequent flyer will then be pondering "well - maybe I should give <airline> a try for my next business trip and I could be switching my miles earning over ..."

Once you let someone away from your brand - you lose them. As above - Waitrose know that - that's why they have the essentials brand. It's to stop the people who think "must save money" from walking into Aldi/Lidl because they feel they already have by buying essentials.

Creating a LCC in Y LH and SH and then trying to be something else up front will just end up in a branding mess.

Let's try this - what's BA's next TV ad? Is it images of a man in a suit settling into a luxury seat being served champagne? Or is it a "top flight deals - Copenhagen from x return?" ad? The former will give false impressions to those who expect a bit of that luxury at the back, the latter doesn't scream quality. If you're carefully crafting an expectation of luxury you don't want to put anything else into someone's head, but you don't want to raise expectations for those at the back.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 9:53 pm
  #130  
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Originally Posted by 1010101
Nothing wrong with being cheap down the back and class leading at the front.
I agree. For instance, JL down the back is absolutely dreadful. The worst food I have ever eaten on an aeroplane. I am not even sure if I can call it 'food. Foot/leg room was non-existent.

1/4" (!!) of congee in a foil container and a stale piece of bread for a 6-hour flight. You don't even get any kind of food on domestic flights at all in Y (certainly not on shorter ones). You can't even BoB. OK, you might get boiled sweets on the flight down the back. They might well run out of time to even serve you drinks (no alcohol, just soft drinks) if you're down the back because it's a short flight. Domestic lounges have barely any food - maybe just a few sandwiches and rice balls nowadays.

However they have a very nice international J and F, and very nice domestic F. You KNOW your bags will be coming out as one of the first if you are in F, too.

Totally different from the entirely commoditised flying down the back with basically no service whatsoever on domestic and rather sad offering on short long haul flights down the back. I don't think many would complain profusely about JL and say that two sides (premium and commoditised) cannot co-exist within a single airline (many would profusely complain about the hot cabin on JL though!).

So, if they do it right, I'm sure BA could. But as I see it, there are a few elements missing from the front end at the moment. Hopefully improvements will come. Saying all that, my biggest gripe with BA is the lack of in-flight Wifi at the moment, however, so for longer flights between Australia and Europe I've been taking SQ and encountered woeful delayed baggage handling until I got put in touch with a helpful, specific person - but I won't hold it against them too much.

My view is that every airline has its PITA side because travelling often is a PITA and every airline screws up from time to time. The more you're exposed to them the more chance you have of encountering an issue too. I sort of work on the % irritation by giving each annoying incident a mental score and when the airline's irritation score exceeds my limit, I put them on my no-fly list. I have to be careful because the no-fly list may get so big that I don't get to go anywhere (I refuse to set foot in STN and LTN so it's a bit limiting but they've exceed my airport irritation limit by about 500% so I don't bother with them).

Last edited by LTN Phobia; Jul 23, 2017 at 10:03 pm
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 10:23 pm
  #131  
 
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Originally Posted by Cap'n Benj
No it's perfectly clear but utterly irrelevent

My question is obviously unclear to you however, I asked how much would YOU pay, if YOU were paying.

It's quite a simple one really and completely unconnected to the fact that someone else is paying for your tickets!
That is an assumption on your part, as I regularly pay for my own tickets.

And the answer is still zero. I don't need to pay anything for these things as I have a supplier who offers them for nothing.

My point is this. On Emirates I can get free WiFi and free live TV in economy on tickets I pay for from my own pocket. BA doesn't offer these things.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 11:14 pm
  #132  
 
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There's a difference between being competitively priced and "cheap." As pointed out above, EK, SQ, (and QR) compete on price in Y. You will find all of these very price competitive for East Asian and South Asian destinations.

The cabin seating is dense (I've been on the 10 across in a 777), but at the same time, the aircraft are relatively new, well maintained, clean; IFE screens are good, wifi sometimes works, and food is more abundant and also more frequent than on BA.

As a result of their competitive pricing and reasonable service, I've found the flights completely full in the flights I've taken.
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Old Jul 23, 2017, 11:16 pm
  #133  
 
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
New BA seat in what? The 787 Y seat is awful.
My only recent long haul BA experience is in the 380 to LAX and some old 777s to BKK. The latter need refurbishing bad.

I haven't tried the 787 but based on my 380 experience I'd consider it (I'm skinny so an inch narrower isn't that big of a deal).

I really want to avoid EK Y again. Their J is easily one of the best but a seat shouldn't be painful like that. And I had some brand new 380s this trip, including their 2 class model so I managed to snag a window/aisle pair upstares for the Mrs. and I.

Regardless I'm starting a new job with lots of travel so one of the benefits is enough miles to mostly end my days of long haul Y travel.
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Old Jul 24, 2017, 12:22 am
  #134  
 
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"If you change your mind" ......
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Old Jul 24, 2017, 12:27 am
  #135  
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Originally Posted by LTN Phobia
I agree. For instance, JL down the back is absolutely dreadful.
I really disagree with you on that. For one thing, only airline to use 787s in their intended 8 across config. Having had to do Europe-Japan return in Y with BA one way and JL the other, I found JL vastly superior and that's despite my thinking that long haul Y is what BA actually does best!
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