Better Empty Seats Than Award Seats?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Marin County, California
Programs: Amex Centurion
Posts: 412
Better Empty Seats Than Award Seats?
Just flew LHR to SFO in Business on BA Flight 285.
I was able to get 2 Business seats for the flight with Avios several months ago. Even though I was ticketed for Business, I checked the same date to see if First would open up and it didn't. But I did notice something else. In the dozen or so times I checked the flight, no Business seat availability ever came up either. I checked right up to the day of the the flight.
Here's the thing, there were 4 vacant seats on the Upper Deck and at least 6 vacant seats on the Lower Deck (747).
Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't whatever computer modeling BA uses release at least a few of those seats for awards? Isn't it better to get something to fill a seat than no revenue at all? Not to mention the goodwill it brings to the Executive Club Program to have more availability?
I was able to get 2 Business seats for the flight with Avios several months ago. Even though I was ticketed for Business, I checked the same date to see if First would open up and it didn't. But I did notice something else. In the dozen or so times I checked the flight, no Business seat availability ever came up either. I checked right up to the day of the the flight.
Here's the thing, there were 4 vacant seats on the Upper Deck and at least 6 vacant seats on the Lower Deck (747).
Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't whatever computer modeling BA uses release at least a few of those seats for awards? Isn't it better to get something to fill a seat than no revenue at all? Not to mention the goodwill it brings to the Executive Club Program to have more availability?
#2
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 70
Just flew LHR to SFO in Business on BA Flight 285.
I was able to get 2 Business seats for the flight with Avios several months ago. Even though I was ticketed for Business, I checked the same date to see if First would open up and it didn't. But I did notice something else. In the dozen or so times I checked the flight, no Business seat availability ever came up either. I checked right up to the day of the the flight.
Here's the thing, there were 4 vacant seats on the Upper Deck and at least 6 vacant seats on the Lower Deck (747).
Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't whatever computer modeling BA uses release at least a few of those seats for awards? Isn't it better to get something to fill a seat than no revenue at all? Not to mention the goodwill it brings to the Executive Club Program to have more availability?
I was able to get 2 Business seats for the flight with Avios several months ago. Even though I was ticketed for Business, I checked the same date to see if First would open up and it didn't. But I did notice something else. In the dozen or so times I checked the flight, no Business seat availability ever came up either. I checked right up to the day of the the flight.
Here's the thing, there were 4 vacant seats on the Upper Deck and at least 6 vacant seats on the Lower Deck (747).
Maybe I don't get it, but wouldn't whatever computer modeling BA uses release at least a few of those seats for awards? Isn't it better to get something to fill a seat than no revenue at all? Not to mention the goodwill it brings to the Executive Club Program to have more availability?
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
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BA does not full up its premium cabins just because there is space.
BA released 2 CW awards on every flight and sometimes it releases more and sometimes not.
BA released 2 CW awards on every flight and sometimes it releases more and sometimes not.
#4
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#5
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
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Posts: 7,683
I agree with the OP. You never really know whether or not there will be seats available close to departure so you may be stuck in WTP or whatever cabin you booked. An empty seat may mean that someone no showed, but if BA knows that a flight is lightly booked in advance I see no reason why Avios upgrades/reward seats cannot be offered.
#6
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
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Posts: 7,549
Plenty of discussion on this as per the threads Jerry posted.
Out of those seen ten empty seats, x could have been no shows or misconnects and y last minute changes in flexible tickets. And BA holding z back to accommodate both of those categories and last minute pax paying mega buck.
Plus the other reasons already outlined.
Out of those seen ten empty seats, x could have been no shows or misconnects and y last minute changes in flexible tickets. And BA holding z back to accommodate both of those categories and last minute pax paying mega buck.
Plus the other reasons already outlined.
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 12,046
In addition to commercial arguments posted in threads passim there is also an under-discussed case for not actively selling the seats (although not explicitly holding them back) to make them available for staff, especially duty travel.
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2014
Location: UK
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If I knew it was a dead cert BA will open up J close to departure on most flights, I would never bother with the exEU faff and just book WT+ direct and upgrade nearer the time.
I would be the worst BA customer ! I probably still am one of their cheapest
I would be the worst BA customer ! I probably still am one of their cheapest
#9
formerly rxfleming
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Data Point:
I (reluctantly) flew LHR-AUH last week in J on the 787-9. When doors closed I was 1 of only 6 J passengers. And there was only 1 F passenger.
F/J availability was 0 on this flight for award seats the days and weeks prior to the flight.
I (reluctantly) flew LHR-AUH last week in J on the 787-9. When doors closed I was 1 of only 6 J passengers. And there was only 1 F passenger.
F/J availability was 0 on this flight for award seats the days and weeks prior to the flight.
#10
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: somewhere north of stateside...
Posts: 4,143
I've often thought that BA should have a sub-inventory that releases Avios upgrades only to passengers already on the flight (and perhaps not visible to passengers who are not yet booked, or proactively offered with Avios payments via MMB only, with no other visibility?)
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
#11
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#12
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 2,253
I've often thought that BA should have a sub-inventory that releases Avios upgrades only to passengers already on the flight (and perhaps not visible to passengers who are not yet booked, or proactively offered with Avios payments via MMB only, with no other visibility?)
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,168
I've often thought that BA should have a sub-inventory that releases Avios upgrades only to passengers already on the flight (and perhaps not visible to passengers who are not yet booked, or proactively offered with Avios payments via MMB only, with no other visibility?)
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
I'm just thinking that there are certain holiday periods where BA oversell Y, and know well in advance they will have to roll the cabins forward. In those cases, I understand BA wouldn't want to book additional people on the flight, but wouldn't they be better off offering Avios upgrades than simply giving them away for free?
Sometimes they do do op-ups but to people BA think might like a taste of a better cabin to encourage them to pay cash for it in the future.
#14
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Lemonia. Best Greek ever.
Posts: 2,266
This seems to come around monthly.
I approve of BA leaving J seats empty on some flights if there is no Rev pax paying for the seat.
It adds to exclusivity.
All my memories of USA flights within the USA are that there was an indecent scrum for the upgrade to fill the seat in "1st." Not exclusive at all.
I approve of BA leaving J seats empty on some flights if there is no Rev pax paying for the seat.
It adds to exclusivity.
All my memories of USA flights within the USA are that there was an indecent scrum for the upgrade to fill the seat in "1st." Not exclusive at all.
#15
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: Meh
Posts: 2,593
This seems to come around monthly.
I approve of BA leaving J seats empty on some flights if there is no Rev pax paying for the seat.
It adds to exclusivity.
All my memories of USA flights within the USA are that there was an indecent scrum for the upgrade to fill the seat in "1st." Not exclusive at all.
I approve of BA leaving J seats empty on some flights if there is no Rev pax paying for the seat.
It adds to exclusivity.
All my memories of USA flights within the USA are that there was an indecent scrum for the upgrade to fill the seat in "1st." Not exclusive at all.