Jimmie76

Colonel Hogan*, (Bob Crane) could probably do a better job, and he's been dead for almost 40 years.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan's_Heroes

ComputerCommuter

Sealink

I understand your point, having worked in the luxury hotel market for many years, but the list of airlines who tried to focus on one sector doesn't make happy reading.

Silverjet
Eos
MaxJet
British Airways : BA 3/4 from LCY - lack of demand
La Compagnie from Luton
Openskies - original plan to be J class

All suggest that there is no real market for an airline focussed on one segment of the market.

The oft repeated "front of the cabin makes more money than the rest' might be true but it's clear that airlines need a full Y cabin too...

Why doesn't it work? I think because air travel has become a commodity, mass transit, the bus.

Andriyko

We don't know whether it is 10% of the market who want to pay the premium. I believe the number is much smaller, especially, when you discount those who say they will spend more only because they believe their employers will. However, even if we assume that it is 10%, do you suggest that these 10% pay for the frills offered to the entire cabin? If we assume that the cabin needs to be profitable, and BA cannot charge more the 90% of the cabin who are either connecting or are very price-sensitive, how will you cover the costs? Will 10% want to pay GBP100-200 more (to cover 10 other passengers) to fly BA if what they're offered extra is worth GBP5-10 maximum? There is a reason why BA (and all others) are tailoring the frills towards the lower common denominator. Your comparison with other business is hard to apply to airlines. A company that offers Mercedes S-Class transfers can have 2 cars and 4 drives and make 10 trips a day waiting for the customers who want the service. The bus company will need to make frequent trips to pick as many customers as it can. BA can't have 2 no frills flight to Paris a day and then a once-a-week service to Paris for those who want the experience. BA can only segment within the plane, so those who want something premium will opt for CE, but ET will be the budget option. Hotel chains, for example, can create different brands tailored to different customers but BA can't create a Four Seasons brand and then an Ibis brand and a student hostel brand. If BA were only trying to capture the Four Seasons customers then it would have 1 flight per week to a destination and tickets would cost much more than that 'a little bit extra' many here feel comfortable paying.

And this is the biggest reason.

Ldnn1

Welcome to Flyertalk, auldlassie - it's great to have you posting. I'd hazard a guess that you herald from somewhere north of the border - joining a strong contingent on this board. I'm sure one of the Ambassadors will also be along to give you the official greeting shortly.

Raffles

BA already IS just 10% of the London to XXXXX market for most of its short-haul destinations.

Let's assume there are 3,000 seats a day between London and Warsaw and BA has 240 of those seats. Knock off transfer pax and West London residents who default to Heathrow and that leaves, say, 125 seats for 'competitive' sale.

BA only needs to price itself at the clearing level where it sells 125 seats and no more. And it can do that by adding a few frills and benefits which just 125 out of 3,000 daily flyers to Warsaw are willing to pay for. The other 2,875 daily Warsaw passengers can happily head off to easyJet or Ryanair, since BA cannot add capacity to serve them anyway.

I've never actually met any of these people in London who book a flight 100% based on price whilst ignoring flight timings, departure airport (out of the 6 available if you include Southend), cost of getting to the airport, cost of getting into the centre from whichever airport they land out, airline reputation, loyalty scheme etc. I'm sure exist, but I've just never found one.

Calchas

I think there are plenty of British people who would be willing to pay a small premium for good service and a high quality brand---and I am talking about middle aged, middle class Daily Mail readers, not FlyerTalk nor finance employees on all-J fares.

As my mother (once a year economy holiday flyer) said to me ... "If BA is now as rubbish as EasyJet, what's the point of BA?"

[Parents don't fly on EasyJet because an employee was rude to her once.]

MPH1980

I don't disagree that there's limited capacity for BA to work with. But the 'frills' that people are willing to pay for are limited and, frankly, the idea that a pre-BOB BA wrap + a cup of tea was enough to justify anything more than £10 extra on a flight is crazy.

IF BA were providing full meals in economy a la TK then you've got an argument.

But the days of luggage included, seat selection included etc are gone.

Waitrose and M&S can create a premium market share because the market is huge. They've got 65 million people who need to eat every day. BA have to compete for the people who are going to fly on a particular route on any given day and who are in the region of each route they fly. Those numbers are pretty small.

EVEN if BA doesn't increase market share through the introduction of BoB and unbundling, as long as costs decrease or income increases (through payment for previously bundled items) all is good right (from BA/IAG/Shareholder's perspective)?

I think we can see where economy goes even on WT. It goes full BoB. Luggage is dropped to 0 by standard etc. Premium economy becomes what economy was.

madfish

Staying off track - my first ever flight was BA from LHR/BRE onboard a BAC 1-11 in Feb 1991.

Calchas

It's not about the cost of a cup of tea and a sandwich and what it would cost to grow your own potatoes to make your own crisps instead of buying them. Those people are lost to BA already.

Many overpriced brands are based on 90% intangible "it just seems nicer and more fashionable" and 10% "concretely this is actually better made". But if you take away that 10%, the 90% seems to go away quite quickly. And then BA really will have to compete on price.

rapidex

So your a youngster post Viscount and Vanguard days^

ahmetdouas

Yes this will all take some time. Slowly, but surely, more and more people are getting frustrated with BA and are looking elsewhere.

I think BA will only worry if they lose their BA before anyone else customers, and so far they have not. The Die-Hard BA fans still fly them. At that point the company will have to really try hard to get their customers back.

Current status is BA has become so arrogant with their brand that AC and WW still think no matter what happens, passenger numbers will continue to rise. I await the full year 2017 figures of BA with great interest, although it will be a year before we see them!

irishguy28

I doubt it!

In a few months this will all be forgotten.

The "B-schools" will have plenty of better fiasco case studies in post-Brexit Britain to learn from!

The "strong and stable" leader will be gone before Señor Cruz.

Petrus

Meant W6. Sorry.

Petrus

Welcome on board in a posting capacity ^ We hope you continue posting and contribute to our crazy but mostly useful little corner of air travel.

Petrus,
Moderator BAEC forum