Club World seat reservations not free?
May 13, 2017, 11:44 pm
#61
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 5,577
I fail to make a connection. Questioning my maturity in regards to financial matters? What does that have to do with BA charging non-Elites a fee when making advance seat selection?
May 14, 2017, 12:20 am
#62
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,334
That's so true - it's how I came across FT in the first place (though it was Googling for something else).
Back to BA's policy, I'm sure it works for them, which is why they haven't changed it. But it's also not unreasonable for us to simply comment on other options and debate on why or why not those are better or worse policies.
Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge for seat selection - although I'd prefer only charging for 'preferred' seats, even in J. I'm sure they could maybe block out the entire UD on 747s and some of the better seats on the lower deck or on other planes, and only allow 'elites' to select them, or for paid selection. They could even tier them, like the 'best' seats (e.g. 64A/K) to only those paying/top tier, etc. Just like what many airlines do with Y exit rows vs first few rows vs rest of the cabin.
Leaving a few seats that people could choose for 'free' regardless of status, albeit not amazing choices, would still let people feel somewhat better, like they're getting some option at least.
Back to BA's policy, I'm sure it works for them, which is why they haven't changed it. But it's also not unreasonable for us to simply comment on other options and debate on why or why not those are better or worse policies.
Personally, I don't think it's unreasonable to charge for seat selection - although I'd prefer only charging for 'preferred' seats, even in J. I'm sure they could maybe block out the entire UD on 747s and some of the better seats on the lower deck or on other planes, and only allow 'elites' to select them, or for paid selection. They could even tier them, like the 'best' seats (e.g. 64A/K) to only those paying/top tier, etc. Just like what many airlines do with Y exit rows vs first few rows vs rest of the cabin.
Leaving a few seats that people could choose for 'free' regardless of status, albeit not amazing choices, would still let people feel somewhat better, like they're getting some option at least.
I do well with seat selection on NZ as an NZ elite..so as a BA nobody I wouldn't expect the same options on a BA flight....but pinning down A seat would be comforting.
As it is I am flying HKG to LHR with BA (AA miles redemption) in a few months, and will certainly be checking at T-whatever to see what is available. I don't intend to stress about it however.
May 14, 2017, 12:59 am
#63
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,887
The connection relates to how much you actually look at what you are buying before committing. Are there many other things in life one would spend so much money on and not understand the product before committing? As noted by others, the information is all readily available if one wants to look.
May 14, 2017, 2:03 am
#64
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,205
If people don't like a feature of a company's product then an internet forum discussing the products of that company seems to me like the *perfect* place to leave feedback. People say "vote with your feet" and that's correct, but it's probably helpful if a company can find out *why* people vote with their feet.
In my line of work, I've been involved in turning customer feedback into product improvements. You certainly want to know what people don't like about your products, after all you're trying to create happy customers. (I assume/hope this is somehow somewhere a motivating factor in the airline industry too).
It's helpful for the company because it can improve the product (good companies don't arrogantly assume that because someone at one point decided to do things a certain way it has to stay that way forever) and it's helpful for customers who have a problem with a product that may keep them from buying it as much as they otherwise would.
In my line of work, I've been involved in turning customer feedback into product improvements. You certainly want to know what people don't like about your products, after all you're trying to create happy customers. (I assume/hope this is somehow somewhere a motivating factor in the airline industry too).
It's helpful for the company because it can improve the product (good companies don't arrogantly assume that because someone at one point decided to do things a certain way it has to stay that way forever) and it's helpful for customers who have a problem with a product that may keep them from buying it as much as they otherwise would.
May 14, 2017, 2:27 am
#65
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 11
As it happens in my case I found my way to BA but way of AA and no I did not sit there and wonder about the seat assignment at the time of booking. But thank you to whoever took the time to screenshot the BA blurb.
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
May 14, 2017, 2:31 am
#66
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,887
As it happens in my case I found my way to BA but way of AA and no I did not sit there and wonder about the seat assignment at the time of booking. But thank you to whoever took the time to screenshot the BA blurb.
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
Have a good Sunday.
Last edited by KARFA; May 14, 2017 at 2:41 am Reason: clarifying my comments
May 14, 2017, 2:41 am
#67
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,402
Well, that has changed. Google "privacy seat Swiss".
^ and a good TA will tell you about it too.
I seriously don't get the fuss about it. Sure it's not very customer-friendly towards people that don't hold status but it isn't that difficult to reach Bronze if you fly at least a return L/H in C and you won't die from not having a seat assignment months in advance.
I seriously don't get the fuss about it. Sure it's not very customer-friendly towards people that don't hold status but it isn't that difficult to reach Bronze if you fly at least a return L/H in C and you won't die from not having a seat assignment months in advance.
May 14, 2017, 2:43 am
#68
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
As it happens in my case I found my way to BA but way of AA and no I did not sit there and wonder about the seat assignment at the time of booking. But thank you to whoever took the time to screenshot the BA blurb.
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
I clearly had expectations that were wholly unreasonable of them and apologise unreservedly to BA, I can only conclude that my confusion was the result of the treatment received on all other business or first class flights I have taken this year on other airlines* bent on making muddying the water for BA
BA are of course right the maths of the situation must work perfectly for them and their planning models must indicate that this is an entirely sustainable form of behaviour and they have nothing to worry about.
It's Sunday so this is the most charitable response that sprung to mind to draw a line under things to sooth those who read as BA apologists (no need to self identify and respond frothily to that, I can't help you with your Stockholm syndrome, sorry)
* excluding El Al, who of course inhabit their own special place in customer experience
I hope you enjoy the flight.
Last edited by navylad; May 14, 2017 at 6:35 am
May 14, 2017, 2:45 am
#69
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 11
At Jaxba, thank you
VA manages quite a lot of that list for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they compare. That is after all the reason why I decided to try something different. Though I'm particularly keen on the Britishness quotient.
VA manages quite a lot of that list for me, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they compare. That is after all the reason why I decided to try something different. Though I'm particularly keen on the Britishness quotient.
May 14, 2017, 2:46 am
#70
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,887
Indeed. BA believes this approach works for them. It clearly favours those who have bronze or higher BA status, or those with equivalent OW status. It is definitely a benefit for those people. For those who are occasional BA travellers and have no BA/OW status it doesn't work so well. That has been noted in this thread, they are real reasons and do have some logic behind them.
May 14, 2017, 3:04 am
#71
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brighton, UK
Programs: BA Gold, IC Ambassador, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Fairmont Platinum
Posts: 3,166
Well, that has changed. Google "privacy seat Swiss".
^ and a good TA will tell you about it too.
I seriously don't get the fuss about it. Sure it's not very customer-friendly towards people that don't hold status but it isn't that difficult to reach Bronze if you fly at least a return L/H in C and you won't die from not having a seat assignment months in advance.
^ and a good TA will tell you about it too.
I seriously don't get the fuss about it. Sure it's not very customer-friendly towards people that don't hold status but it isn't that difficult to reach Bronze if you fly at least a return L/H in C and you won't die from not having a seat assignment months in advance.
It has been stated that virtually every other airline offers free access to select any available business class seat at time of booking. AFAIK that is simply untrue. Many airlines in fact block preferred seats for their elites and the selection available to non-status passengers is quite limited.
BA operate a different system whereby with the exception of Gold blocked front rows in CE , all business class seats can be purchased. Everyone enjoys free seat selection at check in.
Some don't like this and look for faults in it. It is often said that this policy splits up couples. There is little evidence to support this. If no seats together are available when doing OLCI, the check agent at the airport may be able to help or the crew may be able to organise a swap. As a reference point, since this policy was introduced several years ago, I can't remember many threads on here about being separated from partners or traveling companions happening on a regular basis. There have been a few one-offs, particularly during IRROPS, but that's about it.
BA's approach favours its status passengers, particularly when booking late, and is seen as a benefit by many, myself included.
As a parting thought, hotels often charge extra for rooms with a view. Status customers often get upgraded to those rooms for free. You know when you book that you will get a room, but if you want a room with a view and do not have status, then you have to pay extra. I see BA's approach to seating as pretty similar.
May 14, 2017, 3:06 am
#72
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 11
At Navylad, did you read it that way? Fascinating.
As it happens AA apologised profusely on BAs behalf, seemingly my potential future value has some worth there and was reflected in my Advantage. As someone put it the BA tough titty approach less so. As for the maths, if the luring of high value customers from other airlines were not a factor then why do status match or challenges exist or so much emphasis placed on the soft product to achieve retention?
As it happens AA apologised profusely on BAs behalf, seemingly my potential future value has some worth there and was reflected in my Advantage. As someone put it the BA tough titty approach less so. As for the maths, if the luring of high value customers from other airlines were not a factor then why do status match or challenges exist or so much emphasis placed on the soft product to achieve retention?
May 14, 2017, 3:25 am
#73
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 11
At FrancisA
To experience a different product is £4k not enough to warrant a seat assignment, nor a phone call to BA explaining this was a why not purchase, my flying frequency and spend and pondering if this might be the passing of an opportunity at changing my current carrier choices.
Either way, the purpose of the exercise is to make a comparison so I will enjoy my time with BA for whatever it is and quite possibly write it all up as a compare and contrast
To experience a different product is £4k not enough to warrant a seat assignment, nor a phone call to BA explaining this was a why not purchase, my flying frequency and spend and pondering if this might be the passing of an opportunity at changing my current carrier choices.
Either way, the purpose of the exercise is to make a comparison so I will enjoy my time with BA for whatever it is and quite possibly write it all up as a compare and contrast
May 14, 2017, 3:30 am
#74
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
Posts: 3,937
At Navylad, did you read it that way? Fascinating.
As it happens AA apologised profusely on BAs behalf, seemingly my potential future value has some worth there and was reflected in my Advantage. As someone put it the BA tough titty approach less so. As for the maths, if the luring of high value customers from other airlines were not a factor then why do status match or challenges exist or so much emphasis placed on the soft product to achieve retention?
As it happens AA apologised profusely on BAs behalf, seemingly my potential future value has some worth there and was reflected in my Advantage. As someone put it the BA tough titty approach less so. As for the maths, if the luring of high value customers from other airlines were not a factor then why do status match or challenges exist or so much emphasis placed on the soft product to achieve retention?
I would advise against allowing airlines to pass their error off (if indeed an error occurred) as someone else fault, but trust since AA see you as such a valuable albeit without status pax, that they will find the cost to the seat selection for you.
BA does not feel the neee to offer status matching, but as discussed by others, your flights should allow you advanced seat selection if you credit them to BAEC for any future flights and trust you are now well informed to check what is included in your price in any future high valuable flight purchases; as demonstrated by your knowledge of LX, airline policies change.
One final point, if you manage to find a OW airline that does status match and you are successful, you will then be entitled to select seats for free.
Last edited by navylad; May 14, 2017 at 4:00 am
May 14, 2017, 3:33 am
#75
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
At FrancisA
To experience a different product is £4k not enough to warrant a seat assignment, nor a phone call to BA explaining this was a why not purchase, my flying frequency and spend and pondering if this might be the passing of an opportunity at changing my current carrier choices.
Either way, the purpose of the exercise is to make a comparison so I will enjoy my time with BA for whatever it is and quite possibly write it all up as a compare and contrast
To experience a different product is £4k not enough to warrant a seat assignment, nor a phone call to BA explaining this was a why not purchase, my flying frequency and spend and pondering if this might be the passing of an opportunity at changing my current carrier choices.
Either way, the purpose of the exercise is to make a comparison so I will enjoy my time with BA for whatever it is and quite possibly write it all up as a compare and contrast