US Fly Guy

This is my first post on Flyertalk, and I'm sad to report it's a rant. Perhaps you can set me straight about the following, but it feels bad to me.

I have flown most of the world's major carriers, usually in J or F. I'm Executive Platinum (i.e. Emerald) on AA (2.6M lifetime miles) and 1K (i.e. Emerald equivalent) on UA (3.2M lifetime miles) (but only 700K miles on Delta), so I do have some overall experience.

Comparing BA to the three major international US carriers, I will start by saying that BA have a superior onboard product, and their lounges are generally in a higher league than any of the US carriers'.

But.

I had my first experience of IRROPS on BA, and as a paying F passenger, I can say the situation was handled at a standard far below the way it would have been for the lowest-paying Y passenger on any US carrier.

I was on BA 123 LHR-DOH, BA's one daily flight to Qatar, which departs at 2130 and arrives the next morning at 0720. About an hour out of London, the plane turned around for safety reasons, and we got safely back into LHR at around 2330. So far so good. Here's what would have happened next with any of the US carriers:

1) By the time we landed, at least all F and Gold passengers, and many in J, would have been re-accommodated onto flights as early as possible the next day.
2) For those not in those categories, the airline would have rustled up one or (more probably) several agents behind counters to re-accommodate the rest. Beyond even that, any passenger could call the airline's 24-hour reservations number for assistance.
3) The airline would have had no problem re-booking people on partner OneWorld (or Star or SkyTeam) carriers, or (if that proved not possible) even on non-partner airlines.

Here's what actually happened: NO agents were made available. Once we got back through immigration and customs, we were handed a sheet instructing us to go to the airport hotel. We were told BA would try to repair the plane in time for a 1900 departure the next evening. (Really? At their main hub, our fortunes depend on their repairing that one particular aircraft?) They said they would call us in our hotel rooms when they knew more the next day. There was no one with whom to discuss flight alternatives.

Once in the hotel room, I tried phoning and discovered that BA's UK telephone reservations were closed for the night. I also discovered online that there was plenty of availability on most of the 6 QR nonstops LHR-DOH the next day, including (most relevantly) two departing in the morning. There was no F space left, but there was plenty of J.

I had a flash of inspiration and called BA's US number, which was still open. They said they did not have the authority to rebook me on any QR flight. After some begging and pleading, I got them to put me on a BA flight LHR-DXB at noon the next day in J (F was no longer available), from where I knew I could easily find a short flight to DOH. This worked; still, the timing caused me some trip issues that would have been avoided had I been on one of the morning QR nonstops.

The experience was kind of sobering: here I was at BA's main hub airport, and there were no people, airplanes, or even telephone agents made available to help, just the vague promise of a general call the next day to update what might happen. And even when I did manage to get someone on the phone, they claimed to have no authority to re-book me on either of the fully available 8am or 9am partner flights the next morning. IMO, the QR re-booking should have happened automatically, and I should have been told about it even before heading to my hotel room.

Is this usual for BA? Have I finally found a category in which BA is far inferior to the otherwise mediocre US carriers?

<\rant>

NWIFlyer

US Fly Guy, firstly welcome to FT and the BA board. Rants are no problem, and indeed my very first post was one as well (although about KLM and FB).

I'm afraid to say you've found one of BA's achilles heels - IrrOps handling is generally recognised to be well below sub-standard, and the support on arrival is certainly much worse than you'll have come to expect from the generally very pro-active agents in AA lounges, for example.

There will be others who will come along with other advice and no little sympathy, I suspect, but suffice it to say that that everything you've highlighted has been expressed in this forum, so in that sense at least you're not alone in suffering. There is probably one crucial difference here to your experience with other airlines, which is that with BA airport staff actually have much more latitude on moving passengers onto other carriers compared to telephone staff - which is somewhat counter-intuitive to most people.

Betteronacamel

None of your expectations are/were unreasonable IMHO.

BA is currently firmly in cost cutting mode at present. This means that customer service is generally taking a 'back seat'. BA has been a bit flaky on IRROPS for a while.

But you are right to have expected something rather more pro-active especially at BA's main hub. That an F passenger should be expected to self-source a remedy says it all I'm afraid.

Any reason why you were not on QR in the first place? - they are pretty good and have a better schedule for DOH.

Welcome to the BA forum BTW.

Often1

The good news is that you are due EUR 600 for EC 261/2004 cancellation compensation. But, the bad news is that the Regulation causes carriers such as BA to give up once they can't beat the 4-hour deadline it imposes. For many, the EUR 600 is a small fortune and they are just as happy to arrive a day late. For others, it is a pittance and does nothing to offset their inconvenience or loss.

The reality is that modern technology, sorely lacking at BA, could easily fix all of what you experienced. There is no need to have scads of agents sitting around, even at the carrier's worldwide hub. As soon as your aircraft turned around, all of the PNR's associated with the flight could easily have been coded and you could have been handed, along with your piece of paper, a phone number and a code to enter online if you choose to handle online.

You would then head off to your hotel and phone or go online. Your PNR having been specially noted, the agent receiving your call would know that you are an IRROPS passenger not subject to the ticket's fare rules and would rebook you using one of BA's myriad interline agreements.

You would then swing by the counter of your new carrier to pick up boarding passes and head for your new flight and be done with it.

Instead you can't.

BA has absolutely no motivation to help you. As it stands, BA will pay for your hotel and a few meals by way of its duty of care and will eventually cough up EUR 600. It will not cough up any less for rerouting you on a more convenient service and it earns no points with the nannies of the EU for doing so.

Perhaps if the compensation started at EUR 100 at 4 hours and increased by some incremental but reasonable amount by the hour, there would be a motivation to rebook OA. But, there is not.

US Fly Guy

I'm a bit embarrassed to admit why I picked BA over QR: based on my work and travel schedule, I knew a preflight nap would be desirable, and I was able to reserve a cabana in the CCR.

corporate-wage-slave

Welcome to the BA Board here on Flyertalk US Fly Guy, and though it's disappointing to see the circumstances that brought you here, nevertheless you are very much welcome here, and I hope we will see more of you, and also hopefully in a better context.

T5 isn't open 24 hours a day, so often there is someone in Zone E if irrops are expected but sometimes not. Anything that happens at that hour, there's almost no-one left in the building at that point. I have to say that any idea that AA or legacy US would have everything lined up for First passengers if there is an irrop doesn't exactly correspond to my experiences. My most recent example, a year or so back, was being dumped in SLC with zero staff and zero support, thanks to a weather issue over a thousand miles away.

Now QR maybe one of BA's biggest shareholder (indirectly) nevertheless it is a separate airline, and furthermore the telephone agents are constrained in what they can do. On the other hand airport staff don't have such constraints. So in this scenario you would be best to have a good night's sleep then the next morning go over to Zone E or Zone A and see what they can do (and yes rebooking on to QR is an option open to BA staff there). The reason behind this is a mix of IT and training issues in the different teams of staff involved. The Contact Centre people can't put you onto QR, they don't have the access.

You also, under European law, have the nuclear option - if your visit serves no purpose due to the late arrival - of being returned home on the next available flight and given a full refund, so long as it was all on one booking. That's an alternative to the EC261 compensation mentioned by Often1.

I appreciate very little of the above is obvious, particularly to USA passengers where the Contact Centres often have more authority to act than airport staff, but generally outside the USA it's the other way around. But stick around in this forum and it's the sort of insight that comes up here every so often.

US Fly Guy

Really? I'm owed 600 euros? Funny, no one mentioned that to me. Did I do myself in by rebooking to Dubai? And I'm not even sure the flight was officially "cancelled", merely rescheduled for 22 hours later.

JAXBA

Unfortunately, especially by the time you arrived back at LHR, the options were limited for that night. BA's last scheduled departure and arrival was about an hour before; many of the staff who would have been able to rebook you would have already gone.

Suggestion (1) about having at least rebooked the premium pax is sensible, but perhaps they were initially hoping to be able to depart earlier the next day, where it would have been easier logistically to keep everyone on the same flight. Why the 1900 departure I have no idea...

BA's call centres are limited in what they are permitted to rebook to. Airport staff have more latitude - but they of course have to be there for you to speak to...

You had an unlucky combination of a late airborne return, lack of staffing, and a restrictive call centre policy.

Perhaps if you had gone back down to T5 in the morning and asked to be rebooked on QR, you might have had more luck.

corporate-wage-slave

Cancelled or delayed makes no difference after 3 hours. But rebooking yourself may complicate the issue yes. However I would hope, given the inconvenience, there won't be an issue with payment there. Details on EC261 are in this Dashboard and on the BA website. It does partially explain some of your difficulties: this is the mandated compensation route, so that means that any extra benefit that the airline may have provided simply adds further cost and trouble to the airline.

MADPhil

Welcome to FT and the BA forum. That seems a rational reason, though I would have gone for eating dinner and then going to sleep on the aircraft asap. Not that it would have done you much good in this case.

I think BA's attitude to IrrOps dates back to the glory days of Imperial Airways when a few days spent in their desert fort in Yemen while they repaired the aeroplane was OK on a ten day flight to Australia. It is ironic that when you call the US number you are likely to reach the same call center that would answer the UK number if it was operating but the concept that a worldwide airline should have 24/7 worldwide customer service seems to be unknown to BA.

As an aside, after a spat over too much one way traffic AA and DL no longer carry each other's customers in IrrOps so things aren't as sensible as they might be in the US.

US Fly Guy

Thanks for all the info. Several of you have mentioned that at BA, airport staff have more authority than res agents to re-accommodate during IRROPS. Wouldn't that kind of indicate that it would be desirable to have 2 or 3 counter-agent-type people on call during the off-hours to be able to come in, in case something like this happens? Would that break the airline's budget?

Calum

But it's not going to make them more money is it?

corporate-wage-slave

Yes it would be better if they did have a night crew, but you appreciate these staff would probably go night after night without doing anything much. The last traveller will be out of landside by 21:00 or 21:30 in normal circumstances. If there are heavy irrops, weather related, then staff are drafted in. But in a sense time wasn't of the essence, you could have been rebooked after breakfast the next day anyway.

Alvador

CWS, I find all the different desks landside at T5 confusing. If I was in this situation which would be the best one to go to in order to request rebooking?

Geordie405

It's interesting to point out that the whole lack of service / agents issue at night isn't exactly new.

Quite a few years ago I was flying BA from NCL - BRU via LHR on a redemption ticket. The inbound LHR - NCL flight which was to form my service back to London was delayed due to weather. The NCL - LHR flight was severely delayed and on approach to LHR we were asked to hold for 40 minutes. After that hold we diverted to STN as we didn't have the fuel to hold for another 40 minutes as requested by ATC.

Anyway, on arrival at STN we were finally bussed to LHR where we arrived into an almost totally deserted terminal where the cleaners outnumbered the staff. We were, like the OP, handed a sheet regarding the hotel arrangements and told to come back the next morning to be rebooked. What was utterly incredulous was the explanation offered up by the staff there which was that they had no idea that the flight had been diverted to STN.

Also, like the OP, I rang the US number and after some conferring between the agent and his supervisor I was rebooked onto the first LHR - BRU flight of the day. When I arrived back at LHR the next morning the flight was delayed. Ironically it was because the aircraft operating that service was the same one that diverted to Stansted and was delayed being ferried over to LHR.

So, ultimately, I was looked after and got back to BRU but the issue of night staffing / resources at LHR for IRROPS isn't a new one. For what it's worth, I did ask to be re-routed out of NCL on the direct NCL - BRU service operated by Brussels Airlines but this wasn't an option as I was on a redemption ticket and not a commercial booking.