CD747

I'm not sure I've seen this posted before - but having done a fair bit of flying in both CW and F, I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that CW is a better product in terms of sleep. [I also believe that WT is in some ways a better product for sleep than WT+, but that's a thread for another day...].

Why?
1. Meal service is restricted to the very start, reducing mid-flight crockery clinking.
2. More importantly, the meal service is pretty snappy in CW, especially on night flights.
3. The IFE screens are not the size of Jupiter and don't burn with the light of a thousand suns when left on by sleeping passengers.
4. Window seats are less exposed even than F.
5. Generally, most passengers are interested in sleeping rather than staying awake drinking champagne, which helps.

Against this, of course, is the better bedding in F and the larger bed size - I personally don't value either that much.

Do others feel the same way?

Also, is there a reason BA hasn't installed a door on the F suites - even if it's akin to the old Iberia Biz tray table positioning trick?

corporate-wage-slave

Yes. Essentially the 5 reasons you give - which are not restricted to 787s except by degree - are the reasons I've never paid or redeemed into First, though I may have accepted a few involuntary upgrades to help keep the peace. It was even more of an issue with Old First since this also wouldn't have a proper power socket, whereas CW did.

If you get used to sleeping in CW, and I trained myself to sleep on my back to assist with this, then night time flights in First aren't really worth going for, so long as I can get one of the longer CW seats such as 64A / 15A, to cope with being a bit taller than average. The fact that there may be someone determined to make the most out of their First experience is indeed a real risk, one can hardly complain about it, but CW is, let us say, the business.

ThatT1Feeling

I completely agree. CW is better for sleeping as you don't get the chinking of plates and cutlery throughout the night, or the feeling that you are missing out on some part of the F experience. CW is more regimented which tends to be what you need for better sleep. I've twice had flights in F from JFK which have been very noisy and I would much rather have been in CW for those.

I have also got my sleeping position perfected now in CW which works pretty well for me, but at 6' 3" I have to get perfectly into that position!

clubman

The F vs CW sleeping argument has been discussed many times before.

I'm far more intrested in your theory re WT vs WT+.

Do elaborate ...

seaskybound

Well if u get 3 across...

Also a WT exit is better than WT+ middle seat in general (though for sleep only not necessarily)

Cap'n Benj

I'm with him on this, in the old seats anyway, still yet to do a night flight in the new ones.

I suspect it very much depends on the individuals size and perhaps even the exact aircraft but for me, I prefer a WT window seat for sleeping as I can place a pillow on the side of the aircraft and in effect lean on this with my body twisted round against the arm rest

The WT+ seats are too wide to achieve the same effect. An inch or two shorter or taller (I'm 5'11) and things may be different.

flying_pig

All valid points, but overall I have to disagree. I am one of those who think F on BA is CW+, but nevertheless I personally find the comfort of the F seat in sleeping position considerably superior to CW (to the point of often justifying the extra cost). In my opinion this is due to:

• Wider seat (I feel far less constricted around my upper torso and arms)
• I feel that at head level the F seat goes a bit lower, which I prefer
• The seat is softer, thanks to the mattress and duvet
• The sheets/bedding, which are washed after every use, make it more hygienic to sleep on
• I now like being given a throw-away pajama, so I don't have to use my own stuff
• The cabin lights normally come up later than in CW upon arrival for breakfast (I see many crews serving breakfast to individual passengers while leaving the rest of the cabin in the dark - in CW it's lights up once breakfast starts).

allturnleft

Interesting I always struggle to sleep for more than a few hours in CW and have found the few F trips I have done much better. However the last was in a 787-9 F and for some reason the F seat wasnt quite as good. I put it down to bad feng Sui??

Ancient Observer

An interesting thread. A friend and I used to work for the same corporate when flat beds came in to CW. He had a strong belief that the F beds were always better for sleeping, whereas I preferred CW beds, and I am taller than him, but not so wide. We both drank before and on flights, and both found that helped, even if it was medically unwise. We never found a way to resolve our discussion - and left it at "each to his own".
As ever, personal taste/preferences.

toothy

I have to say I always sleep better in F - I fly no where near as much as C-W-S mind.

On of the things I often find in CW (I think it is only certain planes) is the bounce you get when someone walks past.

In F with PJ's, a mask, ear plugs and a pillow and duvet I always sleep pretty well.


T

megaloman

Agree, I only flew once in F on a night flight and my sleeping was worse than in CW.
Yes, seat is wider/bigger, yes it's nicer, but it's exposed and I could feel some cold air on my back regardless how I tried to sleep. Plus the noise from the seat 1K, who's occupant was having a champagne party there... UD on 747 or mini-cabin on AA's 77W are my favourite spots for a night flight in CW.

flatlander

The 744 upper deck floor is pretty bouncy, someone who is more elephant than mouse makes it flex noticeably.

jamesreid978

I completely agree, the screen problem is the biggest one for me, they are so bright and if someone is in the aisle with it on I won't be able to sleep at all. The service noise is less or a problem, but still a problem. Never experienced either of these in CW in a window seat. Although my LH flights are usually short in my current travel pattern, around 7 hours. Maybe if they were longer, the service and screen issue would be less of an issue because I wouldn't need to be sleeping for 80% of the flight.

Jimmie76

Strangely the best nights sleep on a plane I ever had was in F, although I suspect that it might have been helped by the duvet and puhjamas (to quote Sheriff J.W. Pepper) and to a lesser extent by the sleeping tablets. Despite having taken the tablets in CW I've never had as good a nights sleep, horses for courses and all that.

snuffi

Two things to add to this.
1) I sleep very well in F, just not for as long ;-)
2) In CW you can face backwards, thus your head is tilted up due to the angle of the plane, and you can stay overall flatter than in F where you could not recline the seat the full way in order to have your head higher than your feet.