orbitmic

Yes, that is pretty much my thought. I have never done a TP run in my life, but my travel implies a lot of domestic US sectors on premium tickets (not to "maximise TPs" but just because I already have to go to the US more than often enough, so when I do, I try to combine 2-3 work commitments in different places in one go). I have nothing to say to suggest that it would be unfair for AA to stop considering those flights as First class (not too sure why they still want to market them as first, but then they market the exact same service as First or Business depending on whether you land at SEA or YVR) but of course, in my case, this will be a detrimental change.

By contrast, people who do not really fly paid premium but like to redeem will probably see this as beneficial so if anything, I think it will mostly make things more attractive for US-based passengers interested in BAEC as their earnings will often not change (many will only buy Y on domestic routes which is quite the logical thing to do except on very long sectors) but their redemptions will likely cheapen.

One thing I would say is that when CWLCY earnings were downgraded from 210 to 140, many people rejoiced that TP runners would be punished. Well, as mentioned I don't do TP runs but as it happens, CWLCY is one of the routes I use quite a lot. What I see is that this has now been downgraded from two to one flight a day, and whilst the outbound is irrelevant to me (only interested in BA1) the return is a pain in the back for fare paying me as I preferred the BA4 to the BA2. Of course, there are many reasons for the loss, but even if the TP downgrades only contributed 5 or 10% of the service yield losses, that may have been enough to affect the choice of the rest of us. In other words, TP runners and TP maximisers help filling our planes, and in turn improving our choice.

Similarly, even if the AA change is a drop in the lake (not quite in the ocean) in AA operations, it is quite conceivable that it might affect the yield of a small number of routes from, say PHL and CLT. Indeed, many BAEC members and others may currently have an incentive to route their flights through those airports for TP purposes despite the F quality on those LUS planes being frankly rubbish. If the change materialises, I would expect many of them to reroute on more direct flights, or on transcontinental itineraries through, say, JFK where they would earn the same but enjoy a far more comfortable travel experience. I would not be entirely surprised if at some point down the line, this apparently tiny change in yields might be enough to cost an aircraft or frequency downgrade on, say, PHL-SFO or CLT-LAX, and that, of course, would be bad for everyone.

crazy8534

Yes, agreed.
Disappointing for everyone top to bottom of the tier earning spectrum.

ba_cityflyer

I welcome this change.

Easy manufactured status earning has an impact on those of us who don't do so, from more crowded lounges, seat selection, etc. Allowing BA's top tier status to be so easily acquired has a number of side effects, and waters down the overall proposition.

That said, I doubt 60-to-40 and 210-to-140 TP earning will have a huge impact overall.

T8191

I apologise for being a Honolulu Gold, cluttering the Lounges and taking your preferred aircraft seats.

I shall just have to be more creative with my routings, and perhaps add an extra holiday to my plans, should this happen as feared.

hugolover

I do wonder how long BA can continue to award full TPs on discounted I fares. I think it would make more sense to give full Y TPs on the cheapest I fares. And go a step further and provide full J TPs on discounted A tickets.

This would be very much in keeping with LH group (P fares). Making A like J TPs would only be because BA are so cheap. Comparing to AF/KL the cost of servicing those benefits is much less because their lounges are crap and so is the FFP.

Moving to a full transactional approach makes more sense. Pax have nowhere to run because the competition is the same, so it increases shareholder value. Whether the monopoly on direct flights or the ex-EU being incredibly competitive plus there is the transatlantic cartel.

Considering BA are so much cheaper than anyone they are providing too much. We can't have our cake and eat it. CW is a much better product than LH J and yet pax have swallowed P class with some regret but accepted it in the long run.

We would still get the cheap fares and a decentish product. It's a win-win situation.

ba_cityflyer

Excellent analysis. LH Group actually take this a step further - full Y actually earns more than P class! (150% of base for Y, versus 100% of base for P class). Makes sense when you think that Y is typically a more expensive and much higher margin fare than P.

It certainly strikes me as a much more equitable model.

That said, if there were to be a change, I would suspect a revenue-requirement element of the programme would be more likely and easier to implement.

Dave Noble

AA already charges its members at the business class rate for 1st class on 2 class services - it isn't up to AA what BA chooses to charge its members

Globaliser

One thing that BA could do to restore earning rates to something closer to the overall intention is to make all >2000 mile domestic flights earn the same as <2000 mile flights.

BA has already taken a step in this direction by raising the cost of North American <600 mile redemptions to the next award zone.

Ldnn1

Do remember that BA could have done that when they made the big changes to earning and redeeming levels last year. However they chose not to.

It's possible they made that decision because they didn't want to gut the programme too much in one go. Or... it may have been because they did the analysis and decided it was worth keeping I earning levels as they are.

Remember, BA sell cheap I tickets because they want people to buy them. The TPs no doubt help those sales.

FrenchMerican

I think most people here are losing the plot. BA can't possibly be foolish enough to let this affect TPs. They have the least compelling product among major carriers across the Atlantic in premium cabins, and AA has the least compelling product of domestic US carriers in premium cabins save for the 321T routes.

Personally, I only continue to fly BA because earning status and benefits is so cheap and easy. If they go down this road, I would shift more than the 50% of my spend I already have to AF/DL. I *might* keep up Gold at 1500TPs to keep access to RFS CE tickets within Europe....but I might not. Under the current system I fly 2000 or so TPs per year out of necessity, all in paid CW or F, and then hit a mileage run or two to get to 3500 for the extra GUFs and to keep GGL. If they drop earning on AA flights as suggested, it's enough for me to give up the game altogether and just fly who I really want to, which in those markets right now is AF P and DL domestic F.

Surely they know what a fine line they are walking between poor product and high value. This is a dangerous move if it happens.

PUCCI GALORE

I think that you have seen the future. I have long wondered how much longer this TP nonsense can go on. This would shoot it in the foot overnight. I've never done such a thing, but I use the cheap fares to get status. I blame nobody but the airlines for creating this situation.

Now to the question in hand. Whilst the source seems to be well well informed about AA, what he has not answered (maybe he doesn't know or can't tell) is when it will happen, whether it will be retrospective for journeys already booked, and what the fine detail may be, or where is the source of this rumour. I have respect for the gentleman but he will concede that presently this is rather in the "hearsay and gossip" category. One line in the AA Forum and the Speculator meter goes off the dial. We have no substance to the claim so maybe we are worrying unduly for now? Why don't we wait until it is officially announced before holding a wake on the subject. As of today the far class on AA are identical to today. This could change in a heartbeat but let's wait to hear what - if anything - is revealed.

It is always good to have a heads-up, but I think that I'd like to deal with facts when and as they are announced. Then we can get concrete answers to all these questions. Just my thoughts.

FlyerTalker688786

Some observations:
1>, AA already in process of changing membership qualification and award Elite Qualifying miles based on A>, Full fare First/Business and B>, Discounted First/Business. Earning will be based on revenue. So this does not impact AA at all.
2>, AA also names its transcon fist as 'Flagship' and its current first class lounge as 'flagship lounges'. So, my speculation is that the former First class might be renamed to 'Flagship' while retain the name of current domestic first as 'First' or 'American First' or 'First Business'.
3>, BA earnings will be based on fare code of purchase. They could simply change the earning structure of AA into: International First + Transcon First as First class earning; International Business + Domestic First as Business class earning.
4>, BA redemption will be based on fare code too. So as long as AA define its redemption fare code as the same logic of before, I do not see any changes at all. BA can always make exemptions to their advantages.
5>, Do not wish too much, I am sure BA will be thinking of regroup TP into:
F+J;
A+P+C+D+W+Y;
I+R+E+B;
T+M+....
just as an example.

NEMMIE

Queen.

FlyerTalker688786

I think JonNYC is very well connected to AA management and it is not gossip when he pushes some 'rumour' through.

And I also think JonNYC has told us exactly when this is going to happen:
When AA formally introduce Premier Economy into their system for booking (you have to read further in the post and pay attention to the alignment of PE codes). However, as that date is still not set in stone, so we will have to wait.

From a logical assumption, once it is published, all booking made previously will be re-issued. (happened when LUS harmonised the booking code with LAA).

So I trust JonNYC's post and I think it will happen. And from his pieces of information, I am certain that AA will introduce the change when PE is loaded into the system and fully bookable worldwide. But it is only my personal interpretation.

Fly2Where

Agreed, I am lurker in AA forum for quite some time, most if not all of his info comes to reality. So, expect this is going to happen.
Also, he DID mention AA kept marketed as domestic F (not J), just a recode fare class. so it "could" ends up earn less tp but same reward redemption lvl.