Orbitz-booked British Airways inbound can be moved up to 2 hours earlier?
Nov 27, 2015, 1:22 am
#1
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Orbitz-booked British Airways inbound can be moved up to 2 hours earlier?
On my inbound flight of a round trip, it seems that Orbitz & British Airways has moved my flight to be about 1-1/2 hours earlier (i.e., the initial leg). Orbitz customer service says that this was in the fine print. I could understand delaying a flight, and would not be too concerned about it, but making the flight earlier impinges on scheduled activity before the flight.
I suppose that for now on, when I book a flight, I should interpret it as being as much as 2 hours earlier? What if I carefully worked out a ride to the airport for the scheduled time? I'm so pissed!
Nov 27, 2015, 1:51 am
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From where to where? When?
Orbitz didn't do anything, they are a ticket seller, not an airline. BA may have had a schedule change. You can either accept it, get a refund, or rebook on a later flight, though timing to departure is relevant.
You may not be happy, but this is not unusual and is not just in the fine print, but expressly stated.
This is what BA publishes:
Orbitz didn't do anything, they are a ticket seller, not an airline. BA may have had a schedule change. You can either accept it, get a refund, or rebook on a later flight, though timing to departure is relevant.
You may not be happy, but this is not unusual and is not just in the fine print, but expressly stated.
This is what BA publishes:
9a) Schedules
9a1) The flight times shown in our timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee these flight times to you and they do not form part of your contract of carriage with us.
9a2) Before we accept your booking, we or our authorised agents will tell you the scheduled departure time of your flight and it will be shown on your ticket or itinerary and receipt. We may need to change the scheduled departure time of your flight after your ticket has been sent to you or to change the scheduled departure terminal for your flight. If you give us or our authorised agents contact information, we or they will try to let you know about any changes.
9a3) If, after you buy your ticket:
we make a significant change to the scheduled departure time of your flight;
you find this change unacceptable; and
we or our authorised agents cannot book you on another flight which you are prepared to accept;
we will give you an involuntary fare refund.
9a1) The flight times shown in our timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee these flight times to you and they do not form part of your contract of carriage with us.
9a2) Before we accept your booking, we or our authorised agents will tell you the scheduled departure time of your flight and it will be shown on your ticket or itinerary and receipt. We may need to change the scheduled departure time of your flight after your ticket has been sent to you or to change the scheduled departure terminal for your flight. If you give us or our authorised agents contact information, we or they will try to let you know about any changes.
9a3) If, after you buy your ticket:
we make a significant change to the scheduled departure time of your flight;
you find this change unacceptable; and
we or our authorised agents cannot book you on another flight which you are prepared to accept;
we will give you an involuntary fare refund.
Last edited by LondonElite; Nov 27, 2015 at 1:58 am Reason: Add BA policy
Nov 27, 2015, 3:01 am
#3
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9a) Schedules
9a1) The flight times shown in our timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee these flight times to you and they do not form part of your contract of carriage with us.
9a1) The flight times shown in our timetables may change between the date of publication and the date you actually travel. We do not guarantee these flight times to you and they do not form part of your contract of carriage with us.
They are not always legally binding, esp. if they do not conform to the EU passenger rights legislation EC261/2004.
In my eyes a schedule change is considered to be a cancellation. A cancellation triggers article 8 of EC261/2004. Thus, the passenger has the right to decide whether he wants to receive a full refund or a free reroute at the earliest time or at a time convenient to the passenger.
No one should dare to write that EC261/2004 article 8 is not applicable, because that schedule change happened more than 14 days before the flight.
Nov 27, 2015, 5:50 am
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BA may publish whatever they want in their ToCs.
They are not always legally binding, esp. if they do not conform to the EU passenger rights legislation EC261/2004.
In my eyes a schedule change is considered to be a cancellation. A cancellation triggers article 8 of EC261/2004. Thus, the passenger has the right to decide whether he wants to receive a full refund or a free reroute at the earliest time or at a time convenient to the passenger.
No one should dare to write that EC261/2004 article 8 is not applicable, because that schedule change happened more than 14 days before the flight.
They are not always legally binding, esp. if they do not conform to the EU passenger rights legislation EC261/2004.
In my eyes a schedule change is considered to be a cancellation. A cancellation triggers article 8 of EC261/2004. Thus, the passenger has the right to decide whether he wants to receive a full refund or a free reroute at the earliest time or at a time convenient to the passenger.
No one should dare to write that EC261/2004 article 8 is not applicable, because that schedule change happened more than 14 days before the flight.
Nov 27, 2015, 6:07 am
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And depending on the specific circumstances, the OP may not be able to claim for or be due any compensation.
If the flight is more than two weeks off, OP can change his flight or get a refund. That's it.
If the flight is more than two weeks off, OP can change his flight or get a refund. That's it.
Nov 27, 2015, 6:13 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warakorn
BA may publish whatever they want in their ToCs.
They are not always legally binding, esp. if they do not conform to the EU passenger rights legislation EC261/2004.
In my eyes a schedule change is considered to be a cancellation. A cancellation triggers article 8 of EC261/2004. Thus, the passenger has the right to decide whether he wants to receive a full refund or a free reroute at the earliest time or at a time convenient to the passenger.
No one should dare to write that EC261/2004 article 8 is not applicable, because that schedule change happened more than 14 days before the flight.
What are you talking about? We have no idea whether the flight is tomorrow or in a year!
Originally Posted by warakorn
BA may publish whatever they want in their ToCs.
They are not always legally binding, esp. if they do not conform to the EU passenger rights legislation EC261/2004.
In my eyes a schedule change is considered to be a cancellation. A cancellation triggers article 8 of EC261/2004. Thus, the passenger has the right to decide whether he wants to receive a full refund or a free reroute at the earliest time or at a time convenient to the passenger.
No one should dare to write that EC261/2004 article 8 is not applicable, because that schedule change happened more than 14 days before the flight.
What are you talking about? We have no idea whether the flight is tomorrow or in a year!
Nov 27, 2015, 6:16 am
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Your eyes are irrelevant. What do the courts say?
Check out the ECJ judgement C-402/07 and C-432/07
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...7J0402:EN:HTML
Nov 27, 2015, 6:18 am
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And depending on the specific circumstances, the OP may not be able to claim for or be due any compensation.
Nov 27, 2015, 6:22 am
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How is this relevant? There is no delay here. Sturgeon established that a delay should be treated as a cancellation for compensation under article 7 in the eyes of EC261/2004.
Last edited by seawolf; Nov 27, 2015 at 6:31 am
Nov 27, 2015, 6:32 am
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The Court system has spoken. But, not as you suggest. The case to which you cite has nothing to do with the facts here, even reading into them every favorable consideration.
If OP's tickets are for a flight 14+ days from now, he is entitled to cancel for a refund (which might not be much as he presumably purchased a return and has flown the outbound), or a reroute under comparable circumstances.
As OP has not supplied the date or the route, nobody here can provide any useful information as to what such a reroute might be. But, one can reasonably infer that if departing earlier than originally scheduled does not work, that consideration ought to be given to a later flight (although as we don't know the route we can't help OP with specifics).
There is nothing fine print about schedule changes. First, it is only common sense that they occur. Second, Orbitz didn't change anything. It is a third-party ticket vendor and doesn't make or keep schedules. Third, the fact that BA (and all carriers) make schedule changes is far from "fine print." It is in the contract to which OP expressly agreed when he made his purchase. While there are certainly provisions which one might reasonably miss, this is hardly one of them.
If OP's tickets are for a flight 14+ days from now, he is entitled to cancel for a refund (which might not be much as he presumably purchased a return and has flown the outbound), or a reroute under comparable circumstances.
As OP has not supplied the date or the route, nobody here can provide any useful information as to what such a reroute might be. But, one can reasonably infer that if departing earlier than originally scheduled does not work, that consideration ought to be given to a later flight (although as we don't know the route we can't help OP with specifics).
There is nothing fine print about schedule changes. First, it is only common sense that they occur. Second, Orbitz didn't change anything. It is a third-party ticket vendor and doesn't make or keep schedules. Third, the fact that BA (and all carriers) make schedule changes is far from "fine print." It is in the contract to which OP expressly agreed when he made his purchase. While there are certainly provisions which one might reasonably miss, this is hardly one of them.
Nov 27, 2015, 6:33 am
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How is this relevant? There is no delay here. Sturgeon established that a delay should be treated as a cancellation in the eyes of EC261/2004.
It differentiates between a delay and a cancellation.
If the airline abandons the original planning of the flight, it is considered to be cancelled. I even won a court fight on that.
How would you read that instead?
Articles 2(l), 5 and 6 of Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, must be interpreted as meaning that a flight which is delayed, irrespective of the duration of the delay, even if it is long, cannot be regarded as cancelled where the flight is operated in accordance with the air carrier’s original planning.
[..]
Is it decisive for the interpretation of the term “cancellation” whether the original flight planning is abandoned, with the result that a delay, regardless of how long, does not constitute a cancellation if the air carrier does not actually abandon the planning for the original flight?
[..]
Thus, the itinerary is an essential element of the flight, as the flight is operated in accordance with the carrier’s pre-arranged planning.
Consequently, a flight which is delayed, irrespective of the duration of the delay, even if it is long, cannot be regarded as cancelled where there is a departure in accordance with the original planning.
[..]
Is it decisive for the interpretation of the term “cancellation” whether the original flight planning is abandoned, with the result that a delay, regardless of how long, does not constitute a cancellation if the air carrier does not actually abandon the planning for the original flight?
[..]
Thus, the itinerary is an essential element of the flight, as the flight is operated in accordance with the carrier’s pre-arranged planning.
Consequently, a flight which is delayed, irrespective of the duration of the delay, even if it is long, cannot be regarded as cancelled where there is a departure in accordance with the original planning.
Last edited by warakorn; Nov 27, 2015 at 6:40 am
Nov 27, 2015, 6:36 am
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Well, the court has spoken.
Check out the ECJ judgement C-402/07 and C-432/07
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...7J0402:EN:HTML
Check out the ECJ judgement C-402/07 and C-432/07
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...7J0402:EN:HTML
Once again you show a lack of knowledge of the subject.
You should also check the link you cut and pasted.
