Understanding the rules for domestic semi-flex fares
Nov 27, 2015, 4:55 am
#16
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,720
This is totally wrong; you don't need to be careful or pay for more expensive fares if you just want to change on the day. As long as it is a semi flex fare - even a (relatively) cheap one - then you can switch on the day to a plane that has one seat available for sale at a full Y price.
Nov 27, 2015, 5:48 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Welcome to Flyertalk DPW, welcome in particular to the British Airways board. It's great to see new people joining up with us here, so thank you for the question. As indicated the fare rules will indicate the semi flex nature rather than the fare buckets H/B etc but the fare buckets are useful in terms of a having a free transfer or not for other tickets. At H level I would normally expect at least some flexibility.
Having said that, I've looked at LHR to NCL and to EDI for travel today, a busy Friday. NCL there is no H available today, there aren't so many services, they're looking quite full and it's now showing Y9 H0 for all services. EDI is more complex, but the evening flights are filling up, but there is some H available (e.g. the very late BA1464 - a 767 at 20:55 and unpopular with weekly commuters, is showing:
J9 C9 D9 R9 I9 Y9 B7 H3 K2 M0 LC VC NC QC OC SC G1
The G1 tells me this flight is not full by any means.
So in short, you need to be careful with tickets other than semi flex. If ticketed in Y, it is probably OK, but won't be cheap normally, but if at B and below is probably best for mid week, middle of the day travel on less busy services.
When BA says R only, it's typically in the final hour before departure, it's not routine for further out.
Having said that, I've looked at LHR to NCL and to EDI for travel today, a busy Friday. NCL there is no H available today, there aren't so many services, they're looking quite full and it's now showing Y9 H0 for all services. EDI is more complex, but the evening flights are filling up, but there is some H available (e.g. the very late BA1464 - a 767 at 20:55 and unpopular with weekly commuters, is showing:
J9 C9 D9 R9 I9 Y9 B7 H3 K2 M0 LC VC NC QC OC SC G1
The G1 tells me this flight is not full by any means.
So in short, you need to be careful with tickets other than semi flex. If ticketed in Y, it is probably OK, but won't be cheap normally, but if at B and below is probably best for mid week, middle of the day travel on less busy services.
When BA says R only, it's typically in the final hour before departure, it's not routine for further out.
The '1 hour before departure' theory is a red herring. This particular example was at 0800 (on arrival from Scotland) for a return flight originally booked at 1700ish on the same day. I knew my meeting would finish early so tried to move my 'B' ticket to a flight at 1500ish on that same day but was told by three different staff I couldn't as only 'R' was available. I tried again airside but was met with the same response. Very frustrating.
Nov 27, 2015, 6:13 am
#18
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,720
The '1 hour before departure' theory is a red herring. This particular example was at 0800 (on arrival from Scotland) for a return flight originally booked at 1700ish on the same day. I knew my meeting would finish early so tried to move my 'B' ticket to a flight at 1500ish on that same day but was told by three different staff I couldn't as only 'R' was available. I tried again airside but was met with the same response. Very frustrating.
Nov 27, 2015, 2:16 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Gold, Accor Silver, Flying Blue Zilch, East Coast Rewards Lots&lots, Miles & More nada
Posts: 288
Thanks to all who have replied, and apologies that disturbances in the network aethers meant I wasn't able to get back to respond as soon as I had expected when first posting.
The link given by Prospero in post 2 is indeed interesting, but as TyneTraveller later pointed out, these rules aren't made available anywhere that I can see when booking these fares. As I said in my original post, I looked hard at the T&Cs being offered to me when I booked the 2nd semi-flex to see if the 1 hour rule was mentioned anywhere. Since it isn't, it worried me that there are other murky areas. It seems that there is at least one that could affect me on Monday - the page Prospero links to says that the change must be made at least 1 hour before 'scheduled departure', although it doesn't say whether that's departure of the new flight or the original flight.
If I miss conformance for my original flight on Monday, I'm going to be prepared to be asked for a change fee and possibly fare difference. If so, I'll pay under protest but ask for a refund as I think a consumer is entitled to believe that all the rules are made known at the time of booking.
DPW - your experience is also interesting. It's not unusual for the 1500 flight to only have R-class fares offered on some days, even a few days in advance, at least whenever I've looked. I've presumed that's because it works well as a connection from some long-haul destinations but I admit that's guesswork. Again, it seems like another invented rule that the same fare class needs to be available. On the other hand, the conditions simply say 'subject to availability' which could of course mean whatever they choose it to mean.
Like TyneTraveller I rarely explicitly choose semi-flex although often end up with it as the cheapest available option. It's also rarely a concern at EDI where lounge staff often offer a rebooking before the question has even been asked, but that's because they are stars. Annoying that when semi-flex appears to be just the right option, it is perhaps not as attractive as it first seems.
The link given by Prospero in post 2 is indeed interesting, but as TyneTraveller later pointed out, these rules aren't made available anywhere that I can see when booking these fares. As I said in my original post, I looked hard at the T&Cs being offered to me when I booked the 2nd semi-flex to see if the 1 hour rule was mentioned anywhere. Since it isn't, it worried me that there are other murky areas. It seems that there is at least one that could affect me on Monday - the page Prospero links to says that the change must be made at least 1 hour before 'scheduled departure', although it doesn't say whether that's departure of the new flight or the original flight.
If I miss conformance for my original flight on Monday, I'm going to be prepared to be asked for a change fee and possibly fare difference. If so, I'll pay under protest but ask for a refund as I think a consumer is entitled to believe that all the rules are made known at the time of booking.
DPW - your experience is also interesting. It's not unusual for the 1500 flight to only have R-class fares offered on some days, even a few days in advance, at least whenever I've looked. I've presumed that's because it works well as a connection from some long-haul destinations but I admit that's guesswork. Again, it seems like another invented rule that the same fare class needs to be available. On the other hand, the conditions simply say 'subject to availability' which could of course mean whatever they choose it to mean.
Like TyneTraveller I rarely explicitly choose semi-flex although often end up with it as the cheapest available option. It's also rarely a concern at EDI where lounge staff often offer a rebooking before the question has even been asked, but that's because they are stars. Annoying that when semi-flex appears to be just the right option, it is perhaps not as attractive as it first seems.
Nov 28, 2015, 1:20 am
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I agree that the same selling class being required is totally wrong.
This is the information BA gives to travel agents for semi-flex fares:
(Emphasis mine)
and this is borne out by the special process by which these rebookings must be made:
Oh, not to mention,
http://www.britishairways.com/assets...retypes_qa.pdf
In the latest update, BA calls it "last seat availability in same cabin".
http://www.speedbirdclub.com/res/en/...26mar15-en.pdf
I really am struggling to refrain from making any comment on BA ground staff training ...
This is the information BA gives to travel agents for semi-flex fares:
What are the fare conditions for the free change on the day?
- Same day is applied when the customer’s original flight and the flight that customer wants to change to are both within 00:00 and 23:59 local time of the departure airport.
- Customers will be able to change to an early/later available flight on the departure day of the original flight for free, providing they give at least one hour’s notice prior to the scheduled departure time of the original flight.
- Changes are subject to availability on the new flight in the same cabin as the original flight.
- British airways will deliver new functionality to enable to you process this type of change.
- These attributes will not apply to bookings made in restricted Club Europe booking classes.
and this is borne out by the special process by which these rebookings must be made:
What is the process to make changes to bookings on the day for Semi-flex and Fully-flex tickets?
Changes on the day can be made for customers who have not yet checked in for their flight and latest up to one hour before departure by following the process below:
Changes on the day can be made for customers who have not yet checked in for their flight and latest up to one hour before departure by following the process below:
- Make a new booking in the same cabin on the new flight. If the original booking class is not available, book into Y or J class. Do not remove the originally booked sector.
- Add the appropriate SK or OSI keyword (see table below).
- This will generate automatically a message to the British Airways queue.
- British Airways will force book into the original fare class and revalidate the ticket.
- Booking status will change to KK.
- An SSR message will be generated back to the agent to confirm.
Will a difference in fare apply when changes are made on the day?
Customers will not pay a change fee or difference in fare unless:
Customers will not pay a change fee or difference in fare unless:
- Change made on a flight from/to a different airport
- Changed flight to other operating carrier
- Changed flight to higher cabin as no availability in the same cabin
- Change made on/for a different day
In the latest update, BA calls it "last seat availability in same cabin".
For changes made on the day of departure for the same routing (must be same O&D airports) and travel date as originally ticketed neither a change fee nor a fare difference apply to pure point-to-point journeys (transfer/connecting journeys not permitted). Last seat availability in the same cabin (Y or J-class if the original fare class is not available) is granted up to one hour prior departure on first-come first-served basis.
I really am struggling to refrain from making any comment on BA ground staff training ...
Last edited by Calchas; Nov 28, 2015 at 1:33 am
Nov 28, 2015, 1:44 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
BA people are one thing, I cannot imagine trying to arrange this at an outstation staffed by contractors.
The problem is that the BA people are probably unaware that there is a special rule in effect for these semi flex fares. Therefore they are simply quoting the "normal" procedure for a rebooking when the original fare class is closed.
You might be able to arrange this on the Gold line (since they are normally quite good, especially if you sound like you know what you're talking about) or I would hope at the ticket desk at LHR T5.
Nov 28, 2015, 1:57 am
#25
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,720
In addition to Calchas' points, this is all on a user-unfriendly VDU which make it genuinely difficult to share the information. What would be a far better solution is to include the fare rules on a link within MMB, even if it's a slightly obscure link. A lot of other airlines are able to do it. You can extract the fare rules (sometimes) via classic.checkmytrip.com but you still need to cross reference them to some other source and in the case of semi-flex the precise arrangements may get missed out (as it seems we are seeing here).
Nov 28, 2015, 2:11 am
#26
Join Date: Aug 2015
Programs: BA Gold, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond
Posts: 89
Would the 1-hour requirement be described in the full fare rules? I've been having a look in ExpertFlyer at the B and H fares that appear for a typical BA dom journey and I can't see any references.
Nov 28, 2015, 2:55 am
#27
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: UK
Programs: AVIS presidents club, BA GGL, HH Diamond, Marriott Platinum Elite
Posts: 277
Slightly different experience. I landed in from a LH destination and was due to fly on a semi-flex domestic flight that day. It wasn't on the same booking as the LH flight, but a separate booking reference. Unfortunately the LH flight was delayed and I was going to miss my domestic flight. Not to worry I thought as I was on a semi-flex ticket. When I turned up at the checkin desk, I was advised that the ticket was no longer applicable as I was classed as a no-show. I advised that I was on a semi-flex ticket and that I should be able to change on to another flight and was advised I am meant change my ticket before checkin closes for my original flight, otherwise I am classed as a no-show and therefore the ticket becomes invalid. I had to book another ticket at a cost of circa £200.
Nov 28, 2015, 4:20 am
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Edinburgh
Programs: BA Gold, Accor Silver, Flying Blue Zilch, East Coast Rewards Lots&lots, Miles & More nada
Posts: 288
Thanks for the detailed post, Calchas It's not on that these rules aren't made available to the passenger when booking. They make the fare much less attractive for shifting to a later flight, since
(a) You must not have checked in for the original flight and
(b) You must make the shift at least one hour before departure of the original flight.
(a) You must not have checked in for the original flight and
(b) You must make the shift at least one hour before departure of the original flight.
Nov 28, 2015, 10:31 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Thanks for the detailed post, Calchas It's not on that these rules aren't made available to the passenger when booking. They make the fare much less attractive for shifting to a later flight, since
(a) You must not have checked in for the original flight and
(b) You must make the shift at least one hour before departure of the original flight.
(a) You must not have checked in for the original flight and
(b) You must make the shift at least one hour before departure of the original flight.
Nov 28, 2015, 10:32 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Slightly different experience. I landed in from a LH destination and was due to fly on a semi-flex domestic flight that day. It wasn't on the same booking as the LH flight, but a separate booking reference. Unfortunately the LH flight was delayed and I was going to miss my domestic flight. Not to worry I thought as I was on a semi-flex ticket. When I turned up at the checkin desk, I was advised that the ticket was no longer applicable as I was classed as a no-show. I advised that I was on a semi-flex ticket and that I should be able to change on to another flight and was advised I am meant change my ticket before checkin closes for my original flight, otherwise I am classed as a no-show and therefore the ticket becomes invalid. I had to book another ticket at a cost of circa £200.
This is quite disappointing although technically within the validity of the fare rules. But if BA had caused my inbound aircraft to be late I would be irritated to be expected to pay for the change on a subsequent ticket.
In your shoes I would file a complaint, although at this point it might not get very far.
