Do BA employ people to spy on other airlines?
Oct 5, 2015, 6:20 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Yes, it has been done in the past. Both on BA's own services as well as competitor services. And yes, it includes economy as well. They also used to participate in market research surveys asking people about their travel, both on BA and again on other airlines.
Seems only logical. I would have thought many business do competitor monitoring.
Seems only logical. I would have thought many business do competitor monitoring.
Oct 5, 2015, 6:23 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
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If BA did do this, would the secret shoppers use their real name?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...capt-kirk.html
Perhaps our former First Minister has simply fallen on harder times?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...capt-kirk.html
Perhaps our former First Minister has simply fallen on harder times?
Oct 5, 2015, 7:02 am
#18
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They should use secret shoppers and prowl the trip reports here and elsewhere. The advantage of secret shoppers is that well constructed questionnaires remove much of the judgement and permit evidence-based decision-making. The advantage of trip reports is that they pick up random items which the survey did not contemplate.
Oct 5, 2015, 7:29 am
#20
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Any business the size of BA maintains a competitive intelligence section in marketing. The fine-tuning is always about fare vs. service.
The most glaring problem is that it is not all about passenger views as BA is dependent on large corporate contracts where the decision-maker is not the passenger. Thus, the passenger may not care that the fare goes up to pay for a full second meal on a given flight, but the customer, e.g., employer does.
That is all handled through focus groups in which BA and its outside consultants can ask about specifics of what others like and do not like and can be asked hypothetical questions, e.g. "would you pay GBP 20K for a Private Apartment on a flight where you can now fly the BA F product for GBP 10K?
On the other hand, there are many small things which a carrier could implement, but are not likely picked up by secret shoppers. A good example is the routine complaint on this board that one cannot connect to the correct department by phone during off-hours and while overseas (from the UK). The technology which supplies a local number, but connects to a main "rotary" allowing one to be connected to someone somewhere who can help, is 40 years old and is now cheap and software based. Hearing from people that they had trouble on simple rebookings in IRROPS is something which can easily be fixed, does not implicate fares and would greatly please all.
The most glaring problem is that it is not all about passenger views as BA is dependent on large corporate contracts where the decision-maker is not the passenger. Thus, the passenger may not care that the fare goes up to pay for a full second meal on a given flight, but the customer, e.g., employer does.
That is all handled through focus groups in which BA and its outside consultants can ask about specifics of what others like and do not like and can be asked hypothetical questions, e.g. "would you pay GBP 20K for a Private Apartment on a flight where you can now fly the BA F product for GBP 10K?
On the other hand, there are many small things which a carrier could implement, but are not likely picked up by secret shoppers. A good example is the routine complaint on this board that one cannot connect to the correct department by phone during off-hours and while overseas (from the UK). The technology which supplies a local number, but connects to a main "rotary" allowing one to be connected to someone somewhere who can help, is 40 years old and is now cheap and software based. Hearing from people that they had trouble on simple rebookings in IRROPS is something which can easily be fixed, does not implicate fares and would greatly please all.
Oct 5, 2015, 7:37 am
#21
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Any business the size of BA maintains a competitive intelligence section in marketing. The fine-tuning is always about fare vs. service.
The most glaring problem is that it is not all about passenger views as BA is dependent on large corporate contracts where the decision-maker is not the passenger. Thus, the passenger may not care that the fare goes up to pay for a full second meal on a given flight, but the customer, e.g., employer does.
That is all handled through focus groups in which BA and its outside consultants can ask about specifics of what others like and do not like and can be asked hypothetical questions, e.g. "would you pay GBP 20K for a Private Apartment on a flight where you can now fly the BA F product for GBP 10K?
The most glaring problem is that it is not all about passenger views as BA is dependent on large corporate contracts where the decision-maker is not the passenger. Thus, the passenger may not care that the fare goes up to pay for a full second meal on a given flight, but the customer, e.g., employer does.
That is all handled through focus groups in which BA and its outside consultants can ask about specifics of what others like and do not like and can be asked hypothetical questions, e.g. "would you pay GBP 20K for a Private Apartment on a flight where you can now fly the BA F product for GBP 10K?
On the other hand, there are many small things which a carrier could implement, but are not likely picked up by secret shoppers. A good example is the routine complaint on this board that one cannot connect to the correct department by phone during off-hours and while overseas (from the UK).
Oct 5, 2015, 7:51 am
#22
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What I read is not what I would expect from a 'secret shopper'... According to a carefully selected list of scenarios they 'create' problems and have to evaluate the handling of those problems. Real secret shoppers are industry professionals and able to base their judgement against standards or SOPs for either the client or the industry itself.
What you provided sounds more like a preschool essay on a field trip. As you also find them expensive, maybe you should find a different company... @:-)
What you provided sounds more like a preschool essay on a field trip. As you also find them expensive, maybe you should find a different company... @:-)
Oct 5, 2015, 8:25 am
#23
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BA has deployed a very successful secret agent. He flies on all the competing airlines and ranks them out of seven (stars).
His name is Thorsten.
Some of you have already had the pleasure of meeting him.
His name is Thorsten.
Some of you have already had the pleasure of meeting him.
Oct 5, 2015, 8:27 am
#24
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So "ability to fob off" is rated as more competent than "polite honesty".
These, by the way, are the two most common responses to "Do you know who I am?"
Oct 5, 2015, 8:34 am
#26
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Oct 5, 2015, 4:45 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I doubt it. You can learn more by reading trip reports on Flyertalk than you can employing secret shoppers. Secret shoppers are only individuals who may or may not have an eye for detail. The best secret shoppers are the most loyal customers who have experienced it all and have an interest in improving the company. Average Joe who hardly travels BA is not going to be bothered about writing up a good report; s/he only wants the free flight and the money.
As someone who has had a job reading the reports of these secret shoppers you would be amazed at how many secret shopper reports read:
(this one for a restaurant with a theatre experience) I liked my experience as it was fun. The food was very nice and the staff members serving me were friendly. It was better than I expected. As for improvements I would suggest serving people quicker and having the menus look different because I don't like the colours on them. The food was all very nice, much better than other food I have eaten.
As you can imagine it would continue like that in one, big paragraph. Negative reports were not much better:
(for a first class train trip) I did not like my trip because the carriage was very loud and children were noisy. The train left late and the staff were rude. I asked for a coffee but it was delivered after 10 minutes because apparently there was a fault with the machine. this is untrue because the man next to me had a coffee before me. I was offered food but the sandwich selection was not great; there was nothing I liked. I had a chocolate bar and an apple instead.
TL;DR
Secret shoppers are mostly illiterate, not objective, do not give good feedback, and cost more than they are worth. Secret shoppers only really exist in restaurants and other select environments when staff reaction needs to be tested. Even then you are lucky if someone writes a decent report.
As someone who has had a job reading the reports of these secret shoppers you would be amazed at how many secret shopper reports read:
(this one for a restaurant with a theatre experience) I liked my experience as it was fun. The food was very nice and the staff members serving me were friendly. It was better than I expected. As for improvements I would suggest serving people quicker and having the menus look different because I don't like the colours on them. The food was all very nice, much better than other food I have eaten.
As you can imagine it would continue like that in one, big paragraph. Negative reports were not much better:
(for a first class train trip) I did not like my trip because the carriage was very loud and children were noisy. The train left late and the staff were rude. I asked for a coffee but it was delivered after 10 minutes because apparently there was a fault with the machine. this is untrue because the man next to me had a coffee before me. I was offered food but the sandwich selection was not great; there was nothing I liked. I had a chocolate bar and an apple instead.
TL;DR
Secret shoppers are mostly illiterate, not objective, do not give good feedback, and cost more than they are worth. Secret shoppers only really exist in restaurants and other select environments when staff reaction needs to be tested. Even then you are lucky if someone writes a decent report.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:08 am
#29
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Back in 2012 I designed and implemented a mystery shopping programme for QR. It came in two parts:
i) I engaged two full-time staff to take flights (among other duties, which their flights were allegedly taken under the guise of)
ii) I engaged this company, who I know were also employed by BA - the Managing Director is also an ex-BA cabin services employee.
I took QR's mystery shopping programme out to tender. With the exception of the company I actually engaged, I found them to be largely illiterate, unobjective and expensive, just like Dean Cooperfield_West describes.
I would add though that the secret to a good mystery shopping programme is actually for the company itself to make a great deal of effort to ensure objectivity and clarity.
What I did at QR was to translate our product and service standards into a series of detailed, unambiguous questionnaires on an iPad for the shoppers to evaluate. An example of the questions I used was 'Was there any crumbs, debris or other rubbish around the seat when you boarded the aircraft?' Possible answers were 'Yes' and 'No'. Simple and unambiguous.
As another example, our team of menu development chefs kept a photographic record of what meals were supposed to look like. I then made sure that the shoppers were always aware of how the meals on the flight they were going to take were meant to be presented and asked the question 'Was the main course presented in line with specifications?' Answers again were 'Yes' and 'No'. Again, simple and unambiguous. The shoppers then had a chance to comment.
There were about 400 very specific questions for the shoppers to answer, not unreasonable for a flight several hours long, and they had received extensive training in the airline's product and service standards.
I put a lot of effort into this and by-and-large the data collected was excellent, informative and useful. It is not enough simply to hire a mystery shopper and expect them to do all the work.
i) I engaged two full-time staff to take flights (among other duties, which their flights were allegedly taken under the guise of)
ii) I engaged this company, who I know were also employed by BA - the Managing Director is also an ex-BA cabin services employee.
Secret shoppers are mostly illiterate, not objective, do not give good feedback, and cost more than they are worth. Secret shoppers only really exist in restaurants and other select environments when staff reaction needs to be tested. Even then you are lucky if someone writes a decent report.
I would add though that the secret to a good mystery shopping programme is actually for the company itself to make a great deal of effort to ensure objectivity and clarity.
What I did at QR was to translate our product and service standards into a series of detailed, unambiguous questionnaires on an iPad for the shoppers to evaluate. An example of the questions I used was 'Was there any crumbs, debris or other rubbish around the seat when you boarded the aircraft?' Possible answers were 'Yes' and 'No'. Simple and unambiguous.
As another example, our team of menu development chefs kept a photographic record of what meals were supposed to look like. I then made sure that the shoppers were always aware of how the meals on the flight they were going to take were meant to be presented and asked the question 'Was the main course presented in line with specifications?' Answers again were 'Yes' and 'No'. Again, simple and unambiguous. The shoppers then had a chance to comment.
There were about 400 very specific questions for the shoppers to answer, not unreasonable for a flight several hours long, and they had received extensive training in the airline's product and service standards.
I put a lot of effort into this and by-and-large the data collected was excellent, informative and useful. It is not enough simply to hire a mystery shopper and expect them to do all the work.
Oct 6, 2015, 2:19 am
#30
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I am absolutely sure they do hire people to fly on other airlines. I remember the ex-CEO of EL AL telling a small group of high status customers that he and his wife often flew on other airlines flying routes they compete with in order to get an idea as to what they were competing with (without the other airline knowing who they were). I am sure they are not the only airline who do this.