Armodeen

It's been a 767 for a few months, the change is supposedly permanent but we'll see come the winter. Ditto for ORD.

Globaliser

What sort of stranglehold do you mean? Is it that BA has too high a percentage of the slots at LHR?

stewaran

I agree, was just helping my boss book a trip to HKG/TPE, BA around £5000 from LHR, whilst from Germany £1800, Also Emirates £2200.(all paid business)

Ba's product is not cutting edge anymore, to say the least.

but my last 20-30 flights have been between 90-100% full. So understandably BA are not going to invest heavily when they dont need to.

Also you mentioned Edinburgh and manchester, Ive not heard of those small provincial towns?

lorcancoyle

I agree on the employee cost base - but what proportion of cost base would this be:
- aircraft should be give or take the same (though recognise geography may provide some utilisation benefits on certain routes)
- fuel ditto
- landing charges ditto
- catering etc.

I'd (generally) be interested to understand how much of a cost advantage the ME3 really have (absent claims of Government subsidisation etc.)

Using wildly random numbers let's say LHR-HKG costs £8,000 for cabin crew and £20,000 for the pilots - even at 50% the saving is 'only' £14,000 - £20 per person in WT / WTP and £100-150 for CW / F? (I could be miles off of course - but thought I'd provoke / stimulate discussion!)

Flythe96flag

You would also need to factor in all ground crew working for the airline at their hub. Even if subcontracted, must be a cheaper deal in the Middle East. I'd imagine fuelling is cheaper too, but I could be wrong.

lorcancoyle

Fair point - seem to recall Qantas outsourcing maintenance (of trying to) a few years back and getting a lot of grief at home for it. Another Irish CEO there of course!

antichef

I recently had to get a single from NBO to LHR. I found the WTP fare for the direct overnight flight was £15 cheaper than the cost of the EK F suite. I had a good sleep albeit in two parts as I connected through DXB and found it a not unpleasant experience. So did it again last week, although the price differential had changed.

It was a different experience. What the OP was getting at was that the variety may influence future decisions. It has mine. On the domestic flight, the very uncomfortable new Pinnacle seating has changed my plans too!

Just my 2p. It might not suit everyone.

DYKWIA

Looks like it goes back to a 757 - I checked some random dates in January.

KARFA

Ah ok. Shame about that. My first ever longhaul experience was in the AA 757 from MAN-JFK in Y. It wasn't great.

noubliepas

I've just done a ton of flying around Latin America in J and it was interesting as a comparison to BA.

The AM 777 product is extremely poor, but both legs on the 787 were excellent, great seat. AM is slammed for its crews but they were polite and efficient. Priority boarding was enforced and well organised in every airport. Food made no attempt at being restaurant quality, but was still good. Service was fast maximising sleep time. AM shouldn't be an airline that's beating BA on service, but it was significantly better than my recent BA flights (minus the 777).

Also was on an AR regional J, very similar set up to CE, empty middle seat. Again, service was efficient and the food good (although no options). Planes on both airlines were spotless.

Flights on LAN were also good, and got Emerald recognition which I haven't had on BA ever!

I guess in my mind BA shouldn't be being beaten by these airlines. I'm sitting in new IB J on the A340 now, and it's streets ahead of CW. IB have upped their game significantly on service as well.

BA has some of the best crew going, but the investment in them is lacking, as is the investment in the product that is badly needed.

So why do I still fly mostly BA? Crew, and convenience. Ultimately they have a far better schedule out of LHR than most competitors. I also don't think the CW seat is bad, however its showing its age.

HIDDY

AR are on target to lose over 600 million dollars this year, double the amount they lost last year. So probably not a good example to use when making comparisons. Their fares aren't exactly cheap either.

Which AR route did you fly and what did the meal consist of?

Sixth Freedom

I don't think QR is that efficient cost-wise. Besides, they only need to provide a net benefit to the country as a whole for their shareholders to be happy. BA on the other hand need to make a profit from airline operations alone.

noubliepas

The comparison was more about service than profitability - the meal was a simple pasta dish, and the route was LIM-EZE. AR's product was probably inferior to the (old) CE product, but the service (priority boarding, PDB, status recognition) was significantly better. These are not things that cost - it's just a case of implementing the right procedures and attitude among staff (which in BA's case means treating your staff fairly).