KARFA

We all have a turn at getting something wrong and getting chastised, I have been there too - I mean how could you not be completely familiar with all the connection possibilities at T5? Do you know nothing?

jcm9000

Heh! In fairness i really should know better, i have used all passenger entry / exit/ connection methods at t5 - except trying to get out from departures. Last part of my signature shining through!

Fitch

The prickly replies in various threads do give me a heads-up though on who I might want to avoid at the JER do

DrBernardo

Hmmm - this is a slightly fairish point. It used to be very easy to do it in T4 if you were in the know (one-way revolving door next to flight connections security). Can't recall a way in T1 mind you, other than asking to walk the wrong way past security in the FCC.

I guess the issue is that the most logical way (to go back thro security the wrong way) then takes you through a real bottleneck down the stairs in the wrong direction, and then back through the conformance desks and queues the wrong way. And if there were a dedicated channel (a secret door and staircase depositing you back before connections conformance, say) it would require a fair amount of real-estate and staffing to ensure people didn't go thro it by mistake and end up missing their flights.

The shuttle return trip is quite an elegant work-around. Alternatively, it could just be done "on-demand" rather than on the hour - there surely aren't THAT many people asking to do it?

Globaliser

There is a different way of doing it, which is to physically segregate all those who are "inside" the UK for immigration purposes from all those who are "outside" the UK. The former are a minority at T5, and you will no doubt remember the relatively poor facilities available to them at T1 compared to those available to the segregated international departing passengers.

Those who remember T4 will also remember that there were no domestic flights there.AIUI, HMRC would like nobody to be doing it - for reasons which are not difficult to work out.

Fitch

Sorry must have forgotten to take my brain pills this morning as I don't have a clue what you're on about ...

We're talking about pax who are considered safe enough to board an airliner headed for the US, so there's peesumably no incremental security risk. Assuming they re-enter the UK via the Border there's no incremental immigration risk. Why should HMRC care ?

David-A

Revenue and Customs.


(And I don't think they care that much, it is more HAL wanting you to stay in the shopping centre IMO).

patersoj

I did this a couple of years ago at T5 as the result of a minor disagreement with a gentleman at Security (he had declared both my new set of cycling cleats and a mini allan key to be 'tools' and attempted to confiscate them - if it was just the allan key he objected to I'd have binned it).

They unhappily escorted me back through the UK Border which seemed a bit odd to me at the time, I checked in my hand luggage and came back through Security.
Took about half an hour all in before I was back airside having recleared Security.

:D!

If you (re)enter the UK you'll be subject to whatever level of customs inspections they are deciding to hold that day.

If you've purchased "duty free" then yes the government may have lost out on some VAT if your destination was going to be outside the EEA. If they were actually concerned about this then I think they would not permit staying on the train at T5C

Fitch

Sorry, still don't see it.

Some scenarios:
1. Passenger is exiting for genuine reasons with only the belongings he took through Security going in - no risk.
2. Passenger has bought "duty-free" items airside which he does not declare - relative to the enormous volume of pax passing through Customs every day, surely an incremental risk of effectively zero ?
3. Passenger has received contraband from a 3rd party while airside - but still has to take it through Customs so as above surely the incremental risk is nil ?

I am not a thriller writer though - perhaps someone more creative can come up with a scenario which would get HMRC's knickers in a twist ?

Globaliser

That's not what I understand. In addition, ISTR that there was a time when the escort (if you used the official way out) was required to take you through the Red Channel.

TyneTraveller

HMRC certainly do not like people doing it, hence making it positively awkward to do.

Unless I have totally missed the point, I think scenario 2 is exactly the issue in this instance. The other two, as you say, pose little risk, if not nil.

However, scenario 2. Mr/Mrs X decide to buy a cheap one way to GVA £50. They then proceed to purchace XX thousand duty free cigarettes (why the law permits this is beyond me), and then are just allowed just to walk straight back onto the street; unescorted/checked? The fact that HMRC invent the measures to protect against this seem to indicate that is is far more of a problem than perhaps is realised.

David-A

Given their ability to inspect your goods, I'm amazed if they are concerned.

I've no idea the context in which you acquired that understanding, could it have been a jobsworth? Or someone worried about every last bit of revenue? etc. The true revenue and customs abuse chasers and enforcment people etc, I'd be amazed if they were overly concerned about this.

David-A

Of course there could be, but the scenarios where it is necessary are limited.

It should (IMO) be possible for passengers on domestics to do it very easily - there should be provision to land themselves via the domestic boarding gate area at any time via a quick photo bp check.

For non-domestic heading passengers, there are other issues. It could be easier, but I can see why it is not a priority.

David-A

That's not a fair statement as nobody is suggesting people should be allowed to just walk straight out. (Well the OP was originally, but they forgot about people in transit).

So Mr/Mrs X would need to re-enter the european customs area if they want to return to Landside UK. They would be subject to inspection, it would be very easy to route such people to obligator encounter with customs official, and asking of questions. You would not need to allow them to mix with arriving pax.

Secondly, your example of XX thousand cigarettes is bonkers. As is your concern about them. Nobody would attempt that, far to conspicuous.
Would you stop someone buying an XX thousand pound watch? That might be more reasonable concern.
No logical basis to stop people buying that.

There is no logical reason to worry about the XX thousand cigarettes either, prone to detection not practical to move. (And they would be subject to duty on arrival in Switzerland).

Could be a lot easier, but very limited need. So I still put the bulk of the concern at the airport door, not wanting people to get out easily, and also concerns about processing cost (of the passenger).

The other reason why I say customs are not THAT worried, is because if you have a common departure lounge, easy enough to buy on the basis of someone flying outside VAT area, but pass the goods to someone flying domestic, who goes to EDI/GLA/MAN, etc and walks straight out!

Nobody trying to dodge duty on cigarettes would be buying in the UK anyway. Or trying this walk out idea. Far too much work, cost, risk and hassle for limited saving.