CanRulez

Good day everyone,

I am currently an Air Canada E50K (Star Alliance Gold) and was really looking forward to pursuing Super Elite status in 2015. Unfortunately, Air Canada recently announced additional devaluations to their Altitude program so I am currently pursuing other options.

I am based in Toronto (YYZ) and do fly BA on occasion as I fly from YYZ-LHR-HYD in business class about 3x-4x per year. I also fly from YYZ-POZ approximately 2x per year, and YYZ-SFO approx 3x per year.

Redirecting my flying to BA would result in a spike in my travel expenses but if I did, reaching 1500 TP appears to be a possibility...

Should I try and achieve Gold status on BA? Perhaps AA? If I do achieve Gold status, are my chances of upgrades pretty good on the YYZ-LHR leg? What about LHR-HYD leg? It appears there are lots of members who pursue TP runs...I guess the benefits are worth it?

Sorry for all the newbie questions...I really wasn't expecting AC to drop the devaluation bomb on us that drastically this year. Many AC elite members are really upset right now and are looking to abandon the sinking ship.

I am hoping our esteemed members from the BA forum can help a BA newbie out

MPH1980

I fly the yyz route regularly ... What kind of ticket would you be buying?

nux

I would not switch to BA in the hope of being upgraded.

You can upgrade to the next cabin with avios (BAEC mileage currency) but you will not be upgraded purely based on status unless the cabin is oversold.

You would reach BA Gold after three YYZ-LHR-HYD trips in business class. There is no oneworld service to POZ, and YYZ-SFO with AA/US would involve a stopover.

What benefits are you looking for to make you consider switching from AC/*A?

fripperies

BA Gold is worth it for me and lots of others but when considering its value to you you need to assess it on the basis of published benefits. Don't chase BA status for upgrades, on any route. It doesn't work like that. The only unpublished benefit which I've found to be tangible and reliable is that they look after you better when something goes wrong (cancellation, delays etc).

Globaliser

I wouldn't take that as a given. The benefits of being Gold are genuinely valuable to those who routinely fly regularly, but they are typically people who would earn Gold naturally in any event without having to do TP runs.

As someone who's sometimes Gold and sometimes Silver, and who normally flies longhaul W and shorthaul Y, I don't think that spending a four-figure sum on maintaining Gold would be worth it. That's why I'm content to drop to Silver when that matches the level of my flying.

However, different people see the value of Gold differently. You'd have to analyse more carefully what Gold would mean to you, rather than just assume that the benefits of Gold are worth it merely because some FTers are prepared to do TP runs.

As for upgrades, I can only echo what's been said above. It's not a strict hierarchy. I've been upgraded when Silver, and not upgraded when Gold. On BA, the only thing that you should count on as pretty reliable is that you will fly in the cabin you booked.

CanRulez

I am so angry with AC right now that I would do the YYZ-SFO on AA/US even if it involved a stopover. I am tired of AC devaluing their Altitude program and if I didn't consolidate my mileage with one program I would end up with no status at all hence why I'm considering consolidating everything with BA where possible and perhaps moving my *A to UA.

On my YYZ-LHR-HYD, I'd be flying business class since it's such a long trip.

baggage allowance, award flights, first class lounge access, upgrades. I guess that's one of the differences with BA upgrades....You actually have to upgrade with your avios curency. On AC, you use eupgrades and AC has significantly reduced the number of eupgrades you get now. This is another reason I'm considering NOT supporting AC any longer. Enough is enough.

Good point.

Thanks for these comments...definitely something to consider.

nux

As a BA Gold (oneworld Emerald) you would get extra baggage allowance on BA and all oneworld partners. As BA Silver you would get extra baggage allowance on BA/AA/US and some other oneworld airlines (but not all).

BA Gold you would get first class lounge access where available, or business class lounge access.

You can only upgrade BA flights with avios one class and only from flexible economy, or all premium economy and business class published fares. There must be award availability however. You can upgrade AA/IB flights but only from flexible fare classes.

BAEC award charts are charged per flight segment based on distance. Redeeming for BA flights or certain other partners involves high carrier surcharges (similar to AC I believe).

zkzkz

In general BA has restricted availability of upgrades rather severely. I don't see any business class award space (from which upgrades come) to SFO for months out for example. I *have* however been able to upgrade on flights from YYZ-LHR with some regularity. Sometimes availability only opens up the day before but I'm 2/2 so far and I quite often see availability in the calendar from YYZ. I also see availability consistently to/from JFK.

It's a very good deal if you can find availability, especially for the YYZ-LHR direction. There's no taxes difference to pay and it only costs 10k miles to upgrade from WTP (premium economy) to business. And if you're upgraded the dinner in YYZ and the arrivals lounge in LHR are nice bonuses. If you're not the lounge in YYZ is still quite nice but no hot food.

The nice thing about BA upgrades from WTP to J (aside from the good value) is that you can explain the spike in travel expenses because you're actually buying premium economy. That is, your employer is at least getting something for the additional spend. If you spend more for M fares on AC it's tough to explain to an employer why they should pay more for the same seat just to save you some eupgrade credits. At least on BA they're actually buying something more valuable and many employers look at WTP as a compromise offer that costs much less than business (it tends to add 200-300 euro to the ticket return).

I would expect BA to devalue somewhat in the future. They'll probably separate upgrade space from award space so that availability will improve but I expect they'll increase the miles costs when they do that or add a copay.

Another factor if you're based in YYZ is that BA is really terrible at handling IRROPS. AC can rebook you onto a million other flights at their hub but BA only has a few options and they're not very good at being proactive or thinking out of the box. Only station managers have authority to make any exceptions like moving people to earlier flights.

irmster

I don't see much value of BA Gold over Silver given you will not get near to GGL/CCR status, so wouldn't worry too much about that.

As has already been noted, upgrades are relatively few and far between and I've had more as a silver than I had as a gold (still not very many).

I had far more value from my *A Gold status in terms of both upgrades and award options (RIP BMI).

KenJohn

If you buy business class tickets, then BA will get you status a lot faster. This will mean that you can use AA lounges for US domestic flight if you fly those routes. BA does not upgrade unless it is over-booked. BA does not give out free upgrade voucher. You can only use Avios to upgrade your flights or to redeem flights. Also please note that BA charges fuel surcharges on redemption tickets bought with Avios. This makes redeeming economy class tickets worthless and you still have to pay a lot for business and first tickets. Most North American are shocked by the cost (in cash terms) that they have to pay for Avios redemption seats. You must fly 4 segments with BA to qualify for BA elite status; not an issue for you at the moment.

If you buy economy class tickets, then the AA route may be better if upgrades and cheap redemption tickets are important to you. As I understand it, on AA you get free Op-Ups for domestic flight but you need upgrade vouchers for international flights. AA elite status will not get you access to AA domestic lounges. AA Exec and AA Exec Plat will get you into BA lounges if you are flying on a OW airline.

Do not act in haste. Everytime one airline changes its frequent flyer programme, there is a mass exodus of members. Then another airline changes its frequent flyer programme, there is another mass exodus of members. It is a zero sum game for the airlines overall. You need to look at you overall travel over the next few years and make a rationale assessment.

BA are terrible at picking up phone lines particularly in North America. Rebookings for cancelled flights are particular poor. AA are far better in both respects.

If your flying patterns still involve a lot of Air Canada, then maybe another Star Alliance frequent flyer programme maybe better suited. There are enough of them around but this is wrong forum to ask that question.

gypsyjaney

Why not join and give it a try? You have nothing to lose. I think that BAEC is a very good programme. I've enjoyed quite a few extra benefits through membership even though I only fly for leisure. I'd rather pay a bit more and enjoy a comfortable flight than fly on a cheaper airline - it depends on your priorities.

nux

BA does offer upgrade vouchers - GUF2 for reaching 2500 TP's in one membership year and GUF1's for levels above that.

You can also redeem avios for hotels, car hire, experiences and wine. Flight awards/upgrades are usually a better use though.

There are many avios redemption options without a high cash surcharge, including AA/US non-TATL flights. I agree with the rest of your post though about the OP making a balanced assessment of options, and the fact that being based at a AC hub may make AC a better option.

KenJohn

Look I fly BA and am BA Gold but I am trying to help the Op here make a reasonable assessment

AA Exec Plat (i.e BA Gold equivalent) get about 8(?) international upgrade vouchers? BA Golds get none. 2,500 TPs is quite a bit more than the 1,500 TPs for BA Gold and even that gets one voucher for two people. I think you can only split this into two vouchers for one person at higher TP levels. Personally, I have only achieved this a couple of times to date.

Northern American are used to free upgrade on domestic flights. No one really cares about using Avios for hotels, car hire, experiences and wine do they? Thought these were to tempt non-frequently flyers.

nux

Sorry if my post came across the wrong way. I was just trying to correct some inaccuracies, you made some categorical statements that are not correct.

I do fully agree that the OP needs to spend the time to make a reasonable assessment rather than just jumping ship because of an AC devaluation. I would first determine whether switching to oneworld is a good option for the OP's travel patterns and then look at which oneworld program would be best.

kered

Also, you need to be ready for the shock/surprise that many moving over to fly BA business class get, when they discover that they have to pay for seating pre-assignments at the time of booking.

You can allocate your seat for free at +24hr when OLCI opens, but prior to that, if you want to pre-reserve where you sit you will have to pay a not insignificant sum to do so, unless you hold Silver or higher status, or are paying full fare (J bucket) business class fare.

Bronze tier members of BAEC, do get the jump on seat assignments at 7 days out from date of travel. But by then a lot of seat can be pre-assigned by those with higher status or on full fare tickets. Particularly on "Business Heavy" routes.

The subject of these seating charges comes up time & time again on here, as folks such as yourselves, move over to BA business class travel from other airlines. So it's good advise to do your research fully on some of the ins & outs of BA's polices, particularly when it comes to seating, which is unique in the marketplace.

A great resource of all things BA is contained in the stickies at the top of this forum, in particular the rather excellent BA forum Dashboard ^