Jakarta.............
Jul 28, 2013, 3:09 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 1,922
Sadly, tag flights are no longer something you do just to occupy an aircraft. In the old days just about everyone did a variation of BKK KUL SIN CGK in SE Asia.
Lufthansa pulled off -SIN CGK, leaving it only with BKK SGN and BKK KUL on alternate days from its FRA BKK service. A few years' back SWISS cut the BKK SIN tag, and has just started direct flights to SIN from Zurich, so that it operates both ZRH BKK and ZRH SIN directly.
The direct expenses involved in the extra couple of hours' flying are what mitigate against tags, together with the difficulties in allocating capacity and satisfying up demand.
The expenses are truly horrendous, especially with an old widebody guzzler (that's the aircraft...). You need to add on the station costs, airport and navigation fees and the cost of paying and keeping a crew in Singapore. THEN the other indirect costs are factored in. Better keep the aircraft on the ground and perhaps get some maintenance done.
Lufthansa pulled off -SIN CGK, leaving it only with BKK SGN and BKK KUL on alternate days from its FRA BKK service. A few years' back SWISS cut the BKK SIN tag, and has just started direct flights to SIN from Zurich, so that it operates both ZRH BKK and ZRH SIN directly.
The direct expenses involved in the extra couple of hours' flying are what mitigate against tags, together with the difficulties in allocating capacity and satisfying up demand.
The expenses are truly horrendous, especially with an old widebody guzzler (that's the aircraft...). You need to add on the station costs, airport and navigation fees and the cost of paying and keeping a crew in Singapore. THEN the other indirect costs are factored in. Better keep the aircraft on the ground and perhaps get some maintenance done.
The only exception in my view was the GRU-EZE tag which operated for a few years. This was where there was proven demand in the past which then dried up due to a financial crisis - but BA stayed for the long term and now we have a direct EZE service back....
FD.
Jul 28, 2013, 3:30 pm
#33
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Quite close to NQY
Programs: BAEC Silver,clubcard,clubcard plus, BA Amex................ And Mucci x3 ;)
Posts: 9,488
Jul 29, 2013, 5:36 am
#35
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Programs: Many. Too many. I came here to cut them down. I failed.
Posts: 2,999
Just tossing this into the mix. Obviously BA have shed loads of tag ons (Caribbean especially) - but these are obviously destinations where, unlike Singapore & Jakarta, the yield is split between either direction.
As mentioned - Singapore to Jakarta is one of the busiest routes in the world, with no shortage of options. And SIN flights are packed.
How about as a sensible option, make Jakarta a tag on from... Bangkok?
18:00 departure ex-LHR - better than new 14:55 time for most - arrive into BKK around 12:00 midday, swap crew, departure 13:30, arrive CGK 17:30, quick turnaround so same crew can operate back - leave 19:00, arrive BKK 22:30, new crew - leave BKK 00:05 and into LHR next morning?
Good for connections, split the load between BKK/CGK, help support BKK, far less competition BKK-CGK-BKK (GA&TG - so no One World + a couple of locos). Anyway, here's hoping!
As mentioned - Singapore to Jakarta is one of the busiest routes in the world, with no shortage of options. And SIN flights are packed.
How about as a sensible option, make Jakarta a tag on from... Bangkok?
18:00 departure ex-LHR - better than new 14:55 time for most - arrive into BKK around 12:00 midday, swap crew, departure 13:30, arrive CGK 17:30, quick turnaround so same crew can operate back - leave 19:00, arrive BKK 22:30, new crew - leave BKK 00:05 and into LHR next morning?
Good for connections, split the load between BKK/CGK, help support BKK, far less competition BKK-CGK-BKK (GA&TG - so no One World + a couple of locos). Anyway, here's hoping!
Jul 29, 2013, 11:13 am
#39
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Programs: Many. Too many. I came here to cut them down. I failed.
Posts: 2,999
I did some great googling, and found some fasincating facts and figures about LHR, slots, what's being given up, what BA have been fined for, stuff like
But not what BAPilotInsider is hinting at...
PM's always welcome (particularly interested due to this being my no. 1 route - save me from Doha's airport people!)
In order to resolve the competition concerns raised by the EC and DOT, the parties were obliged to make
available at LHR (or LGW if requested) slot pairs for competing carriers to operate London to Dallas (1 x
daily, with option of one-stop), London to Boston (2 x daily), London to Miami (1 x daily, with option of onestop)
and New York (3 x daily). The New York slots will only be available in the event that the number of
competitive daily frequencies (not including those of BA/AA/IB) falls below 13 per day between London and
New York.
For the Summer 2014 Season, the Monitoring Trustee is inviting applications for London to Boston
(1 * daily), London to New York (3 * daily) and London to Miami (1 * daily with option of one-stop).
available at LHR (or LGW if requested) slot pairs for competing carriers to operate London to Dallas (1 x
daily, with option of one-stop), London to Boston (2 x daily), London to Miami (1 x daily, with option of onestop)
and New York (3 x daily). The New York slots will only be available in the event that the number of
competitive daily frequencies (not including those of BA/AA/IB) falls below 13 per day between London and
New York.
For the Summer 2014 Season, the Monitoring Trustee is inviting applications for London to Boston
(1 * daily), London to New York (3 * daily) and London to Miami (1 * daily with option of one-stop).
PM's always welcome (particularly interested due to this being my no. 1 route - save me from Doha's airport people!)
Jul 29, 2013, 11:21 am
#40
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,188
Got that part as well! But surely BAPilotInsider meant the schedule that has been published and other future slot allocation
Jul 29, 2013, 12:17 pm
#41
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: LON, RUH and DXB
Programs: BA Bronze, GF, EK, WY
Posts: 2,607
W13 is not published yet in the obvious place, but some interesting historical stats nonetheless.
http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatist...8&subjectId=33 and http://www.acl-uk.org/slotSanctions.aspx
http://www.acl-uk.org/reportsStatist...8&subjectId=33 and http://www.acl-uk.org/slotSanctions.aspx
Jul 29, 2013, 3:11 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 23,433
I believe the new, earlier SIN departure time from LHR might be a hint.
A tag from SIN could be a proving exercise ahead of a 787 direct. CGK is the sort of route the Smokeliner was designed for. And no long ETOPS sectors.
A tag from SIN could be a proving exercise ahead of a 787 direct. CGK is the sort of route the Smokeliner was designed for. And no long ETOPS sectors.
Jul 29, 2013, 3:54 pm
#43
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Just tossing this into the mix. Obviously BA have shed loads of tag ons (Caribbean especially) - but these are obviously destinations where, unlike Singapore & Jakarta, the yield is split between either direction.
As mentioned - Singapore to Jakarta is one of the busiest routes in the world, with no shortage of options. And SIN flights are packed.
How about as a sensible option, make Jakarta a tag on from... Bangkok?
18:00 departure ex-LHR - better than new 14:55 time for most - arrive into BKK around 12:00 midday, swap crew, departure 13:30, arrive CGK 17:30, quick turnaround so same crew can operate back - leave 19:00, arrive BKK 22:30, new crew - leave BKK 00:05 and into LHR next morning?
Good for connections, split the load between BKK/CGK, help support BKK, far less competition BKK-CGK-BKK (GA&TG - so no One World + a couple of locos). Anyway, here's hoping!
As mentioned - Singapore to Jakarta is one of the busiest routes in the world, with no shortage of options. And SIN flights are packed.
How about as a sensible option, make Jakarta a tag on from... Bangkok?
18:00 departure ex-LHR - better than new 14:55 time for most - arrive into BKK around 12:00 midday, swap crew, departure 13:30, arrive CGK 17:30, quick turnaround so same crew can operate back - leave 19:00, arrive BKK 22:30, new crew - leave BKK 00:05 and into LHR next morning?
Good for connections, split the load between BKK/CGK, help support BKK, far less competition BKK-CGK-BKK (GA&TG - so no One World + a couple of locos). Anyway, here's hoping!
Jul 30, 2013, 3:28 am
#44
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Programs: Many. Too many. I came here to cut them down. I failed.
Posts: 2,999
Although I was always under the impression that BA Pilots are so good they only need half a runway in the Caribbean
Jul 30, 2013, 4:37 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: SQ-PPS+8, BA-Mucci Diamente, Mucci Siegneur des Bains Chauds
Posts: 2,286
Pretty soon we will be asking for hotel recommendations. I am not quite sure if the Hotel Bunga Bunga in Jakarta is me:
Hotel Bunga Bunga
Jalan Antara No.13-15, Pasar Baru, Jakarta, Indonesia 10710
http://bungabungagroup.com/
I am reliably informed that bunga bunga has a different meaning in Indonesia.
Hotel Bunga Bunga
Jalan Antara No.13-15, Pasar Baru, Jakarta, Indonesia 10710
http://bungabungagroup.com/
I am reliably informed that bunga bunga has a different meaning in Indonesia.