Should you pay the same for CW in 747/777 as a 767?
I flew on Friday LHR to EWR. When I initially booked the flight, the outbound flight was meant to be on a 777. Then about 2 months ago they substituted this for a 767.
This was my first ever CW flight on a 767 and I couldn't help feel that I wasn't getting the same quality product as I do on a 747 or a 777. The IFE screen was smaller; the screen quality was certainly worse; the kitchen isn't so much a kitchen as a couple of baskets; the footrests are smaller; the area felt smaller (although happy to be told otherwise); the partition between myself and the person to my right wasn't a screen but a fan made of some material, but it wouldn't stay in place etc.
The service from the crew was still great and ultimately we got from A to B but it made me think that if BA are going to offer a 767 for Long Haul flights, this be offered at a cheaper fare as the product just isn't as strong and not completely comparable to it's other planes in the same class.
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Yes, it's still a Club World product 'at the end of the day' (I do hate using that phrase ).
Did you have blue or brown seats? The blue seats are the original Club World flat bed, whilst the brown seats are the recently refurbished version, albeit not completely new seats like Next Generation Club World on the 747/777 fleet.
The original Club World flat bed seats are slightly shorter in length than NGCW, but I believe the seat is the same width.
Conversely, some airlines tried charging more for their A380 product but subsequently most have reduced their prices back in line to the rest of their longhaul fleet operating the same routes.
In fact, on my regular route, the 767 is often more expensive than the 747 as the cheaper bucket tickets in CW are either not released or sell out more quickly (24 seats rather than 70). Booking 2 weeks out, I often find the 747 to be cheaper in CW.
In fact, on my regular route, the 767 is often more expensive than the 747 as the cheaper bucket tickets in CW are either not released or sell out more quickly (24 seats rather than 70). Booking 2 weeks out, I often find the 747 to be cheaper in CW.
I quite like NCW. But then I also prefer OF........
I'd far rather be on the 767 than the 777 in Club World. Dormitory. Ugghh. I sleep better on NCW as the bed is flatter.
also agree. In effect the smaller 767 cabin means less I class fares so an average you pay a premium for the 767. The older seats are more 'solid' and I much prefer them, the IFE works (more often) and it is a more intimate cabin, so probably a deserved premium for the 767.
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The 767 has more seats with aisle access.
The 777 has newer seats with better IFE etc, as the OP points out.
On a day flight, the 777 is better, IMHO, but overnight I don't find any real difference, as the original NCW seat is still better than some competitors products, e.g. OS, LH (the older seats) etc.
As my client will be paying, the price is not an emotive issue, although I do understand the OPs point.
My last CW experience was a 767 in October and I was very happy with the flight in all respects.
In a word no, yes the cabin is small, which is a bonus. However even with a refurb it in my humble opinion is still a way inferior product. The seat is over 10 years old and is simply planets apart from the middle eastern offerings. The actual aircraft is either coming up to 20 years old or over that and is very noisy. Agreed the IFE is small. Having just paid nearly 10k for 4 club tickets on the rust bucket I do feel rather ripped off. unfortunately it's the only offering on the route.
I for one don't see how it will ever be justified when any company whatever business they are in offers a newer version of the same product as you will always have an unfair comparison that will inevitably be made. For me the 767 cannot be retired quickly enough
The service from the crew was still great and ultimately we got from A to B but it made me think that if BA are going to offer a 767 for Long Haul flights, this be offered at a cheaper fare as the product just isn't as strong and not completely comparable to it's other planes in the same class.
The BA family of aircraft seem to vary a lot when it comes to upkeep and a 767 I suspect (having not flown one for years, though) may be as good or bad as a 747 for instance.
My aircraft back from the US last month (ORD-LHR) was "repaired" using gaffa tape (or even inferior tape!) at several places. The IFE was dead too. Never mind, I was sleeping and picked up a good dash of extra miles by grace of BAEC. Just thought I'd share a few pics now that you mentioned standards...
Kindly, the technical folks have taped up the sharp edges:
And the toilet flush was in fully working order:
The photos are from the upper deck (Club World) of what's presented as a premium product on a 747.
Should you pay the same for CW in 747/777 as a 767?
No different to any other airline. Eg. Until recently from MAN - DXB on Emirates business class could be A330, B777 or A380. A330 seats are more like glorified WT+, but you paid the same as the swanky A380 latest offering.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oslogutt999
The BA family of aircraft seem to vary a lot when it comes to upkeep and a 767 I suspect (having not flown one for years, though) may be as good or bad as a 747 for instance.
My aircraft back from the US last month (ORD-LHR) was "repaired" using gaffa tape (or even inferior tape!) at several places. The IFE was dead too. Never mind, I was sleeping and picked up a good dash of extra miles by grace of BAEC. Just thought I'd share a few pics now that you mentioned standards...
Kindly, the technical folks have taped up the sharp edges:
And the toilet flush was in fully working order:
The photos are from the upper deck (Club World) of what's presented as a premium product on a 747.
That aint Gaffa tape, my guess from looking at the evidence is thats micropore or another similar brand of medical tape !
cs
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I think it's a shame there are so many variants on the Club product: NGCW, CWLCY, the new 'mid haul' product, NCW refurbished, and NCW not refurbished.
I can see that BA can still say you're guaranteed a flat bed, which is great, but there's a lot of differentiation in the hard product according to route now.
Shame, as several years ago I thought consistency of product was one of the good things about BA compared to, say, Emirates.
It's a good job there won't be a(nother) new Club product for the A380s/787s!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London_traveller
I think it's a shame there are so many variants on the Club product: NGCW, CWLCY, the new 'mid haul' product, NCW refurbished, and NCW not refurbished.
I can see that BA can still say you're guaranteed a flat bed, which is great, but there's a lot of differentiation in the hard product according to route now.
Shame, as several years ago I thought consistency of product was one of the good things about BA compared to, say, Emirates.
It's a good job there won't be a(nother) new Club product for the A380s/787s!
I agree about EK, it is a lottery and some other their J products (332, 343 in particular) just don't cut it.
The BA position I find different, there are basically two categories
Wide Body - 747, 767, 777
The seat will be ying-yang, original or new CW. Upper v lower deck on 747 is a different experience, but due to the nature of the 747.
Narrow Body A318, A321
The seat is not ying yang and the A318 is symmetrical layout (2x2) , but the A321 is asymmetrical (2x1). I've not used the new mid haul A321, but I have used the same seat on Swiss and liked it.
So in summary, EK is highly variable in terms of the fundamental seat and being asked to travel overnight on a recliner is a disgrace - EK have only wide bodied aircraft, so are not faced with the extra challenge of providing flat beds around a single aisle.
BA has variations on a theme, all of which I find to be highly acceptable and the A318/321 seats are in a different league to the old LH J class I will have on Privatair next week (mind you, that is a lot better than overnighting in Y.)
I am not a BA apologist and my ultimate preference is staggered seating, like EY, but in this instance believe BA has made good decisions on hard product.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by London_traveller
I think it's a shame there are so many variants on the Club product: NGCW, CWLCY, the new 'mid haul' product, NCW refurbished, and NCW not refurbished.
I can see that BA can still say you're guaranteed a flat bed, which is great, but there's a lot of differentiation in the hard product according to route now.
Shame, as several years ago I thought consistency of product was one of the good things about BA compared to, say, Emirates.
It's a good job there won't be a(nother) new Club product for the A380s/787s!
Hardly. NGCW covers the vast, vast majority of flights. CWLCY is a niche product, NCW/NCW refurb are hardly different and are obviously exclusive to 767 flights only. And even though the A321 product is "CW" it's really a midhaul product and so it really should be somewhere between CE and CW. Perhaps CC (Club Continent )
Compared to other carriers - EK is a notable offender but there are many, many others - the BA J class product fragmentation is nearly nonexistent.
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