Only Slightly OT - Virgin win EDI & ABZ Heathrow routes
Nov 19, 2012, 9:35 am
#46
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Good for BA to have some competition. Anything that might make BA keep fares competitive, improve the ground product at its dedicated LHR terminal, and pay for fast track security all at UK regional airports for Business UK and Gold/Silver would be a good thing!
Maybe Virgin could include GLA and NCL, - and look to offer to other destinations - such as as NQY...?
Maybe Virgin could include GLA and NCL, - and look to offer to other destinations - such as as NQY...?
Last edited by wyvern; Nov 24, 2012 at 5:09 am
Nov 19, 2012, 9:38 am
#47
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Only Slightly OT - Virgin win EDI & ABZ Heathrow routes
Do we know how many extra aircraft they will require for the new routes?
cs
cs
Nov 19, 2012, 9:49 am
#48
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BMI was making horrendous losses on it's domestic network before it's demise. BA still claims not to make any profit on most of it's shorthaul network.
Virgin lost over Ł80 million last year, hmmm...
And why if they were so committed to the UK regions did they for the last few years lease out spare LHR slots they owned to other carriers. They could have started them years ago?
Virgin lost over Ł80 million last year, hmmm...
And why if they were so committed to the UK regions did they for the last few years lease out spare LHR slots they owned to other carriers. They could have started them years ago?
I also think he'll have a job making money from these routes.
Nov 19, 2012, 10:08 am
#50
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Nope. Because BMI pulled out of GLA before being taken over by BA, GLA wasn't a destination included in the Remedy Slots list, so if Virgin want to fly there, they need to use one of their long haul slots.
Nov 19, 2012, 10:12 am
#51
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No they can't.
After three years they can use the slots for other short-haul routes or the long-haul routes identified in the competition commitments, but they just can't keep them running for three years and use them for any long-haul route.
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...2452290_EN.pdf
After three years they can use the slots for other short-haul routes or the long-haul routes identified in the competition commitments, but they just can't keep them running for three years and use them for any long-haul route.
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/merg...2452290_EN.pdf
1.3 Grandfathering of Slots
1.3.1 As a general rule, the Slots obtained by the Prospective Entrant from IAG as a result of the Slot Release Procedure shall be used only to provide a Competitive Air Service on the Relevant City Pair for which the Prospective Entrant has requested them from IAG through the Slot Release Procedure. These Slots cannot be used on another city pair unless the Prospective Entrant has operated the Relevant City Pair for which these Slots have been transferred for a number of full consecutive IATA Seasons (“Utilisation Period”).
1.3.2 The Prospective Entrant will be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the Slots once appropriate use of the Slots has been made on the Relevant City Pair for the Utilisation Period. In this regard, once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the Prospective Entrant will be entitled to use the Slots obtained on the basis of these Commitments exclusively to operate services on any European Short-haul City Pair or the Identified Long-haul City Pairs (“Grandfathering”).
1.3.1 As a general rule, the Slots obtained by the Prospective Entrant from IAG as a result of the Slot Release Procedure shall be used only to provide a Competitive Air Service on the Relevant City Pair for which the Prospective Entrant has requested them from IAG through the Slot Release Procedure. These Slots cannot be used on another city pair unless the Prospective Entrant has operated the Relevant City Pair for which these Slots have been transferred for a number of full consecutive IATA Seasons (“Utilisation Period”).
1.3.2 The Prospective Entrant will be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the Slots once appropriate use of the Slots has been made on the Relevant City Pair for the Utilisation Period. In this regard, once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the Prospective Entrant will be entitled to use the Slots obtained on the basis of these Commitments exclusively to operate services on any European Short-haul City Pair or the Identified Long-haul City Pairs (“Grandfathering”).
Nov 19, 2012, 11:56 am
#52
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Great news, competition will surely bring prices down to a more reasonable level.
Anything that stops BA thinking they can charge Ł1000 for a family of four to fly from Scotland to Heathrow nine months from now to connect onto a long haul award booking.
Anything that stops BA thinking they can charge Ł1000 for a family of four to fly from Scotland to Heathrow nine months from now to connect onto a long haul award booking.
Nov 19, 2012, 12:07 pm
#53
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Only Slightly OT - Virgin win EDI & ABZ Heathrow routes
Yep great news BA used to charge £98 return on ABZ-LHR cheapest economy and upon merging all the bmi flights to BA the lowest return jumped to £146 return just a 50% increase!
Nov 19, 2012, 12:15 pm
#54
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Only Slightly OT - Virgin win EDI & ABZ Heathrow routes
Much as I welcome the competition as others have stated to peg back excessive prices, I genuinely hope that, given their history, they do not engage in a detrimental price war. There are certainly people around who would like to see the back of domestic flights, and they would be more than pleased if airlines decided that it was not worth the effort due to too low fares.
As an aside I wonder what people would regard as a fair price for a discounted LHR - EDI return. As a starter, I would suggest around £125 to £150.
As an aside I wonder what people would regard as a fair price for a discounted LHR - EDI return. As a starter, I would suggest around £125 to £150.
Nov 19, 2012, 12:24 pm
#55
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If VA was serious they could have mentioned that they would be getting their own aircraft, either bought or leased, to run these routes. Seems to me that going down the wet lease route it would be fairly easy for them to drop the routes if/when they start losing heavily on them.
Nov 19, 2012, 12:35 pm
#56
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If VA was serious they could have mentioned that they would be getting their own aircraft, either bought or leased, to run these routes. Seems to me that going down the wet lease route it would be fairly easy for them to drop the routes if/when they start losing heavily on them.
Nov 19, 2012, 12:56 pm
#57
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Nov 19, 2012, 1:10 pm
#58
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This has interesting implications for where VS is based at LHR, as presumably they will want to keep their operation in one terminal for ease of connection, opex savings etc.
Of course T3 has no domestic capability at present...
Also will be interesting to see whether Branson opts for a domestic business class cabin...
Of course T3 has no domestic capability at present...
Also will be interesting to see whether Branson opts for a domestic business class cabin...
Last edited by Genius1; Nov 19, 2012 at 1:17 pm
Nov 19, 2012, 1:14 pm
#59
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I doubt VS could have started a viable shorthaul netwrok with the 3 slots they had leased out 
Perhaps they realise that they might loose a little on shorthaul, but deem it worthy if they can get enough pax connecting onto their OWN LHR long haul flights and therefore providing profits on longhaul- exactly what BA do.
I don't think they had much choice... they have 3-4 months to start the route from this announcement. Hardly enough time to order aircraft and get crews trained up etc.... makes sense for them to capitalise on this one off gain (ie 14 LHR slots in one hit). Sure it might be costly short term, but the long term gain is worth it.
Crew will wear Virgin uniforms, aircraft will wear Virgin colours and the onboard service will be per Virgin's standard. So to the average punter they will not know anything about it being a wetlease.
Kind of like most pax don't realise that most groundstaff wearing an airline's uniform aren't actually employed directly by the airline... Or looking back a little how most BA pax wouldn't have realised they weren't on BA if the were flying GB/BMED etc
As for being costly - presumably they have done the numbers... I guess the benefit of a wetlease is you know what the costs will be upfront.
Perhaps they realise that they might loose a little on shorthaul, but deem it worthy if they can get enough pax connecting onto their OWN LHR long haul flights and therefore providing profits on longhaul- exactly what BA do.
I don't think they had much choice... they have 3-4 months to start the route from this announcement. Hardly enough time to order aircraft and get crews trained up etc.... makes sense for them to capitalise on this one off gain (ie 14 LHR slots in one hit). Sure it might be costly short term, but the long term gain is worth it.
Crew will wear Virgin uniforms, aircraft will wear Virgin colours and the onboard service will be per Virgin's standard. So to the average punter they will not know anything about it being a wetlease.
Kind of like most pax don't realise that most groundstaff wearing an airline's uniform aren't actually employed directly by the airline... Or looking back a little how most BA pax wouldn't have realised they weren't on BA if the were flying GB/BMED etc
As for being costly - presumably they have done the numbers... I guess the benefit of a wetlease is you know what the costs will be upfront.
Nov 19, 2012, 1:16 pm
#60
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And remember that the record price paid for a pair of LHR slots is $50m!