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Old Dec 10, 12, 3:20 pm   #136
 
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I do not understand this 70p talk, where can 70p airfares be found?


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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
From the Bloomberg wire: " The average fare between Glasgow and Heathrow has increased 34 percent since BMI dropped flights and left the route to British Airways, Virgin Atlantic said. An assessment by the European Union antitrust regulator found that competition out of London’s Gatwick and City airports “did not seem to constrain the ability of IAG to increase its prices significantly on the Heathrow-Glasgow route, even for economy restricted fares.”
Is that it?

bmi often sold cheaper tickets partly because of their cost base and because they could command less premium tickets so it probably distorted the trend downward. Then there are fuel prices shooting up and inflation.

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Originally Posted by Speedbird218 View Post
Whats confusing about a Virgin branded aircraft, crew in Virgin uniforms and a Virgin flight number?

Virgin shorthaul, Irish crew, Aer Lingus interior, spread over two different terminals at both LHR and MAN...

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Originally Posted by Speedbird218 View Post
SQ have had a non controlling interest for a number of years. You might be better to ask the SQ board on the reason why they invested in VS.

Branson owns 51% Unless he decides to sell enough shares to give someone else a controlling interest...he will be the majority shareholder.

Those are the facts.
I agree with the comments that 49% is risky for practically no control, it is usually best to do this with highly profitable entities that you don't want to control but want a voice.

I believe DL/VS can extract better returns and synergies, with DL wanting more UK origin of traffic. They claim it is a reason for international losses in Europe and Latin American. DL is also a lot larger in London than SQ and joining the Skyteam Joint venture offers synergies.

VS/SQ didn't even codeshare 'til a few years back and had no joint marketing campaigns, no alliance partnerships, no joint marketing schemes.

If VS can join the Skyteam joint Venture I see a lot more synergies, but also it gives DL a bit more of a voice.
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Old Dec 10, 12, 3:26 pm   #137
 
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Originally Posted by ian001 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedbird218 View Post
If you own 49% of a privately owned company and one other shareholder owns 51%...you can only ever be a sleeping partner.

218
But that's not what DL is going to be. If the off the record briefings are correct, the investment is a pre-cursor to a joint transatlantic business between DL and VS. That business depends not only on regulatory approval but the quality of the relationship between the two parties and if DL is expected to be treated as a silent partner the joint-business will sink. DL is not buying into a heavily loss making business facing major strategic issues to be a silent equity partner.
I suspect this is where the deal will unravel. SRB is implying that he will not allow VS to be intrinsically changed and his 51% share would guarantee this. Would DL be happy with this situation, I suspect not.
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Old Dec 10, 12, 3:27 pm   #138
 
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Originally Posted by PotNoodle View Post

Virgin shorthaul, Irish crew, Aer Lingus interior, spread over two different terminals at both LHR and MAN...

AC will be branded VS inside and out.
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Old Dec 10, 12, 4:32 pm   #139
 
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Irish crew? OMG...BBQ! You don't find them on BA or VS

It does make me laugh the evolution of these threads. First it was "blah blah SRB will never succeed in getting these slots". Then it became "SRB will never launch short haul routes". Now it's "SRB will never last on these routes".

As much as I love the BA board, I think some folks need to pull their viewpoints out of the APU of the nearest BA 747's..
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Old Dec 10, 12, 4:43 pm   #140
 
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Originally Posted by colmc View Post

As much as I love the BA board, I think some folks need to pull their viewpoints out of the APU of the nearest BA 747's..
That is the beauty of this board, I suspect that your enjoyment would be severely diminished if everybody who posted had exactly the the same viewpoint.
Much as I am cynical about SRB and VS, I enjoy hearing supporters of them as it allows a more rounded view of the issues to be achieved.
It may not change your view but does allow you to appreciate others.
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Old Dec 10, 12, 4:45 pm   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PotNoodle View Post

Is that it?

bmi often sold cheaper tickets partly because of their cost base and because they could command less premium tickets so it probably distorted the trend downward. Then there are fuel prices shooting up and inflation.
Come on - 34% increase!!
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Old Dec 10, 12, 6:39 pm   #142
 
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Originally Posted by BApilotinsider View Post
Mr WW doesn't seem to think the Virgin brand will last long...

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...-may-disappear
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Originally Posted by ian001 View Post
Mr Walsh should focus on solving his own problems instead of making frivolous remarks about other companies. I hope he does accept Sir Richard's challenge but instead of throwing away shareholders' funds, he puts his own money on the table, just as Sir Richard has done.

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Originally Posted by phol View Post
Makes sense. There cant be too many companies willing to buy 49% of a company and remain completely anonymous in running it.
For reasons which I find hard to understand, the Virgin brand is valuable and companies across a range of industries pay royalties to Virgin just to use the Virgin brand rather than their own brand, for example, health clubs, mobile phone, cable TV, railways.

Some of these businesses were started by Virgin who then sold a minority stake to an incumbent in that industry at a price often much higher than book value.

Even if Virgin were to sell some or all of its stake, there is no reason to assume that the new majority shareholder would not wish to continue trading as Virgin Atlantic. There are numerous airline groups that have more than one brand in their portfolio (hint: IAG).
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Old Dec 11, 12, 5:07 am   #143
 
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Last edited by sparkythehamster; Jan 10, 13 at 10:07 am.
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Old Dec 11, 12, 9:54 am   #144
 
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Originally Posted by sparkythehamster View Post
Oh dear - the rather childish public Walsh/Branson spat just gets worse:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20676667

Surely they they should both just grow up and move on - this name calling does neither party any credit.

Walsh: Branson is not going to go away and his operation is a fraction of yours - so live with it.

Branson: You have got a reasonable slice of the pie and constant whinging about how unfair BA is just gets tedious - so live with it

There is merit in both carriers being successful - and while they do compete head-to-head in the market that can only be good for the customer. I just get fed up with the constant alpha-male backbiting and bickering...

Regards
StH
I would speculate that acting in the interest of the customer is not the primary driving force for either party despite their protestations to the contrary.
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Old Dec 12, 12, 12:07 pm   #145
 
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Originally Posted by PotNoodle View Post
bmi often sold cheaper tickets partly because of their cost base and because they could command less premium tickets so it probably distorted the trend downward.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong there. My corporate travel agent is only allowed to book BA and we never used BMI on my weekly run from GLA to London. The BA fares these days from GLA to the South East are now significantly more expensive than they were a year or so ago. It's so obvious it's blatant profiteering.

I'm honestly surprised that its only 34%, it certainly feels like a lot more.
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Old Dec 12, 12, 1:16 pm   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian001 View Post
But that's not what DL is going to be. If the off the record briefings are correct, the investment is a pre-cursor to a joint transatlantic business between DL and VS. That business depends not only on regulatory approval but the quality of the relationship between the two parties and if DL is expected to be treated as a silent partner the joint-business will sink. DL is not buying into a heavily loss making business facing major strategic issues to be a silent equity partner.
So the slogan "No Way VS/DL" is unlikely to be appearing on BA/IB/AA planes, a la "No way AA/BA".
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Old Dec 12, 12, 1:22 pm   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkythehamster View Post
Oh dear - the rather childish public Walsh/Branson spat just gets worse:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20676667

Surely they they should both just grow up and move on - this name calling does neither party any credit.

Walsh: Branson is not going to go away and his operation is a fraction of yours - so live with it.

Branson: You have got a reasonable slice of the pie and constant whinging about how unfair BA is just gets tedious - so live with it

There is merit in both carriers being successful - and while they do compete head-to-head in the market that can only be good for the customer. I just get fed up with the constant alpha-male backbiting and bickering...

Regards
StH
That BBC quote is selective, he apparently said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Walsh
Branson is a billionaire banker, allegedly.
So he may not want to be caught saying something that could turn out not to be true.
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Old Dec 12, 12, 1:29 pm   #148
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmie76 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian001 View Post
But that's not what DL is going to be. If the off the record briefings are correct, the investment is a pre-cursor to a joint transatlantic business between DL and VS. That business depends not only on regulatory approval but the quality of the relationship between the two parties and if DL is expected to be treated as a silent partner the joint-business will sink. DL is not buying into a heavily loss making business facing major strategic issues to be a silent equity partner.
So the slogan "No Way VS/DL" is unlikely to be appearing on BA/IB/AA planes, a la "No way AA/BA".
The correct response is to state that you have no objections to the DL/VS joint venture and look forward to the competition. In the mean time up your game.
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Old Dec 12, 12, 1:39 pm   #149
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The correct response is to state that you have no objections to the DL/VS joint venture and look forward to the competition. In the mean time up your game.
Ah so the direct opposite of the Virgin Group/SRBranson typical response.
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Old Dec 12, 12, 1:49 pm   #150
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanderson1965 View Post
The correct response is to state that you have no objections to the DL/VS joint venture and look forward to the competition. In the mean time up your game.
Ah so the direct opposite of the Virgin Group/SRBranson typical response.
Exactly, quiet confidence often beats unrealistic propaganda.
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